Silverstone DS380 thread?


tucansam

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I think this setup is going to be my next purchase  ;D

 

Small, cool, lots of storage, low energy, quiet ... what's not to like?

 

A couple of questions...

 

1) How's the performance if I wanted to run say (a) the usual containers for Plex, Sab, CP, Sonarr, etc + (b) 1 or 2 Windows VMs under Xen? Would the 8-core Atom be capable of handling all that (in addition to unraid of course)? Does it support the required vt-d for xen?

 

2) If I were to populate all 8 drive bays with data drives, would there be enough room to add my 2xcache ssds (2.5" drives) + 1 x parity drive (8TB seagate 3.5") into one of the internal bays (I understand they are 2.5" bays, but a slight case mod should allow me to squeeze in the 3.5")?

 

Thanks!

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The 8-core Avoton has enough "horsepower" (PassMark 3929) to handle a fair number of Dockers, but it does not support vt-d, which is important if you need to do device pass-through.    I'd think this is a pretty severe limitation for VMs, so I'd recommend using a board that supports E3 12xx series Xeons instead ... this will also let you use CPU's with a good bit more "horsepower".

 

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Don't know if Daniel is using the filters (I'd think so, but don't know for sure) ... but he noted earlier that he's numbered his disks starting at the top => so disk1 is on top; disk2 next; disk3 next; etc.  (only 3 disks currently installed).

 

As expected, the uppermost disk (disk1) is the warmest.

 

Yep disk 1 was the warmest and what you mention is correct.

 

Fan speeds (the Stock ones) were being reported in the BMI interface running at 1000 RPM.

 

 

Configuration: There is nothing but trays in the remaining bays and case is running stock fans in default configuration (as attached) with all filters attached as designed.

 

 

Sorry fellas - there was allot off text. I admit difficult to spot. In summary yes - I setup and run the test on the rig with all filters attached.

 

In short - skirt aside (to manage the airflow) and the subsequent addition of the NF-12's (which as me and Gaz mention was probably an addition that wasn't really required for the sake of an extra 2C) I didn't fiddle with the default configuration of any component.

 

 

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The 8-core Avoton has enough "horsepower" (PassMark 3929) to handle a fair number of Dockers, but it does not support vt-d, which is important if you need to do device pass-through.    I'd think this is a pretty severe limitation for VMs, so I'd recommend using a board that supports E3 12xx series Xeons instead ... this will also let you use CPU's with a good bit more "horsepower".

 

Yep. I can't say "I agree with Gaz .." Because (while I do), well really, he helped me form the opinion.  ;)

 

However, the above setup was selected as a backup server for me. (Which as you can see from above is complete). To be updated, but see my Project thread which shows a build of my replacement Main Server (not yet finished) which is an E12xx build for doing similar to what you mention.  8)

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=37567.0

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I think this setup is going to be my next purchase  ;D

 

Small, cool, lots of storage, low energy, quiet ... what's not to like?

 

A couple of questions...

 

1) How's the performance if I wanted to run say (a) the usual containers for Plex, Sab, CP, Sonarr, etc + (b) 1 or 2 Windows VMs under Xen? Would the 8-core Atom be capable of handling all that (in addition to unraid of course)? Does it support the required vt-d for xen?

 

2) If I were to populate all 8 drive bays with data drives, would there be enough room to add my 2xcache ssds (2.5" drives) + 1 x parity drive (8TB seagate 3.5") into one of the internal bays (I understand they are 2.5" bays, but a slight case mod should allow me to squeeze in the 3.5")?

 

Thanks!

It does have vt-x but not vt-d like Gary said. I run 3 Linux virtual machines as well as a Windows  7 one with no problems. I run all the usual apps except plex in one ubuntu server vm, a full time Mythbuntu tv backend and openhab as well. I would recommend kvm over xen. Some guy made a plugin for vm management for kvm that should make vm creation and operation easy. :)

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I should have noted that there's no problem running virtual machines without vt-d ... as long as you have hardware virtualization support (vt-x), which the Avoton DOES have, VM's will run just fine => they simply won't be able to use passthrough.

 

... Just something to be aware of

 

Other than that, the C2750 is an AMAZING performer => PassMark of nearly 4000 with a mere 20w TDP !!

 

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... Yep. I can't say "I agree with Gaz .." Because (while I do), well really, he helped me form the opinion.  ;)

 

Trying to find the quote from "Gaz" you referred to, just to see what he said.  Is that someone on a different forum?    The only user close to that here is "Gazz" ... and that user doesn't have any posts relative to this.

 

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Well, I have just finished a preclear of my 8TB drives with the Custom Skirt in place. As a means of bringing my test together I have summarised.

 

ASRock C2550D4I Mini ITX Motherboard

Kingston 4GB (1x4GB), PC-12800 (1600MHz) ECC Unbuffered DDR3L, ValueRAM, CL11, 1.35V, Single Stick

Silverstone ST45SF-G 450W SFX Form Factor Power Supply - ST45SF-G

3 x Seagate 8TB Archive HDD, SATA III, 5900RPM, 128MB (in top 3 bays).

 

Configuration: There is nothing but trays in the remaining bays and case is running stock fans in default configuration (as attached) with all filters attached as designed.

 

Location: My desktop next to a window which gets some sun throughout the day so some UV exposure BUT the ambient temperature outside over the test has not exceeded 29C. For 8 hours per day (night time) I have had the heating in the house set to 27C.

 

2 Preclear runs with a time of: ~58 Hours (give or take 40 minutes over the 3 drives)

 

Run 1: Without Custom Skirt:

Disk 1: Start Temperature: 42C, Finish Temperature: 41C, Peak Temperature*: 44C

Disk 2: Start Temperature: 39C, Finish Temperature: 39C, Peak Temperature*: 41C

Disk 3: Start Temperature: 37C, Finish Temperature: 36C, Peak Temperature*: 40C

Motherboard Temperature: 35C

CPU Temperature: 35C

 

*Note: Peak temperature for Run 1 was captured from S.M.A.R.T reports at end of the run as I knew these were the highest temperatures these new disks had experienced.

 

Run 2: With Custom Skirt:

Disk 1: Start Temperature: 31C, Finish Temperature: 35C, Peak Temperature**: 36C

Disk 2: Start Temperature: 30C, Finish Temperature: 33C, Peak Temperature**: 34C

Disk 3: Start Temperature: 29C, Finish Temperature: 32C, Peak Temperature**: 33C

Motherboard Temperature: 39C

CPU Temperature: 38C

 

**Note: Peak temperature for Run 2 was captured through observations recorded at 6 Hour Intervals as I knew I wouldn't be able to rely on S.M.A.R.T reports.

 

I am still going to put the Noctua NF-F12 fans in there. As Gary mentioned before: a 1500rpm unit like this would "likely" provide about 25% more airflow than the stock fans => and a high quality unit like the Noctua NF-F12 will run at 1500rpm with the same 22dba noise level the stock fans have at 1200rpm. And I am more than happy with the noise level of the case which is pretty much silent to my ears (and that is with it sat next to me on my desktop - not lower down on a shelf near the floor where it will be when I'm done).

 

To conclude, I love this case. If I had to go back and make the decision to buy it again I would without hesitation. I would have lived with the temperatures noted in Run 1 but the addition of the custom skirt has made them much more acceptable. I feel the addition of more drives (though to capacity) will not materially impact the overall temperature of the case and that (barring the 1 or 2 drives) won't impact temperatures more than 1C or 2C more. With the addition of the Noctua fans mentioned above I think Ill shave another 2C off the temperatures reported in Run 2.

 

Based on this test I will not be "Modding" the drive cage or the case further with additional holes. I feel that adding additional holes does not guarantee better results and it has even been mentioned to me that this "could" have a negative impact on the temperatures (although this is so far unsubstantiated at the time of this post).

 

Im also not going to replace the Cardboard skirt with an Aluminium one because I don't feel there is a need. I feel Silverstone have done a good job with this case and with a little airflow control the temperatures are great for such a nice SFF case.

 

I hope this is helpful. If anyone wants any more details or information that I have not recorded please let me know.

My initial results with the case during a parity check were that some drives would reach the mid to high 40's This was also with the side fan filter removed.

 

I followed you and created a barrier between the drive cage and the fan/left side of the case using some clear sterilite plastic. I sealed the top and bottom sides with some duct tape. I then started a parity check. I have 6 drives in the cage. None in the top slot or 3rd one from the top. And 2 ssd's and a laptop drive in the 2.5" cage. 2 Noctua F12 PWM's in the side and a Enermax tb silencer in the rear.

 

This time after running a parity check for a couple hours only one drive was @ 37C and that was the same 2TB Seagate drive that had reached 47C previously. It is in the bottom slot. The rest of the drives were 32-35C. And the 2.5" drives were @ 30C.  The Noctua side fans were running at 1000 rpms and the rear was 1200 rpms. Also the side fan filter was on. CPU was @ 50C and motherboard 47C. House is @ 24C  Further samplings have been similar during the parity check.

 

Also before I ran the parity check and the system had been up a bit all drives were below 30C in the high 20's

 

Thank you for this. That's a 10 or more degree difference and peace of mind.

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Definitely confirms that a bit of airflow control makes a NICE difference.

 

With that change, this is a near-perfect case for a mini-ITX system ... and with drive capacities of 8TB (and larger) there's not much reason to use anything else !!  With a Plus system in one of these cases you can have 56TB of fault-tolerant capacity, plus a fault-tolerant BTRFS cache pool !!

 

And with the nifty AsRock Avoton board with 12 SATA ports, you can do this with very low power consumption, and no need for an add-on SATA controller  :)

 

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  • 1 month later...

Sorry guys, I have been remiss in getting back to this thread, have been working like a dog.

 

Front server door still (!) at machinist, he's totally inundated with real work and side projects get the back burner.

 

I put the whole system back together, sans front server door, which semi-simulates my having a vented door anyway (only a REALLY WELL vented door...)

 

Spent the last few days playing with various fans and fan configs.  Here's what I've come up with.

 

Stock Silverstone fans, most horrible fans ever.  But they are darned quiet.  So I have kept one as an exhaust in the rear of the case.  This is the config for all the different fan setups I've tried -- stock Silverstone fan for exhaust in the rear never changes.

 

And I drilled 1/4" holes all along the length of that retarded plastic bracket that blocks the drive bay for whatever pogue decides he needs a video card in this box (Silverstone's design team needs to go back to school)

 

With the case completely sealed up and seven 3.5" drives in the system...

 

- Side two Silverstone fans (stock), intake -- drives were 35-42*C during large copies

- Side two Silverstone fans (stock), exhaust -- drives were 32-38*C during large copies

- Side two Corsair (the super loud ones with the lame color change rings) on slow speed, intake -- drives were 34-39*C during large copies

- Side two Corsair fans exhaust -- drives are 28-32*C during large copies!

 

(One of my drives is a decades old Maxtor (Seagate) 320GB 7200rpm DiamondMax which runs super hot to begin with, and may be acting like a space heater for the rest of the array.  I have a 2TB WD Red coming this week to replace it.)

 

I also tried some Lian Li 120mms, too loud, and some unmarked beater 120s I had in a pile, they rattled.

 

Cache drive is still pushing 42-44*C right now, which is irritating, although it is also an elderly WD 7200rpm 160GB model, and probably runs hot.  Its currently a 3.5" drive, and will eventually get swapped for a 2.5" 1TB drive to be mounted at the rear of the case.  Then all rear vent holes except one row above and one row below the cache drive will be blocked.  So hopefully this will generate some good airflow around the cache drive with the all exhaust fans setup.

 

I am debating trying the Nidec/Scythe Gentle Typhoons.  I am also debating putting a 140mm fan at the rear for exhaust, either with a 120mm - 140mm adapter, or a Xigmatek 140mm which can also be mounted in a 120mm space (and then use all holes more effectively than a 120mm would) which claims 80-90CFM.

 

I am also thinking about taking two or four old broken 120mm fans, removing all of the center motor parts and motor support arms, so there is only the outer frame left, and then using them as spacers to get the two side fans as close to the drive bay frame as possible, and then try intake and exhaust with that setup, with the empty 120mm frames acting as tunnels to channel the air directly to the drives. 

 

In looking at the stock setup more closely, with the utterly anemic stock Silverstones sitting *inches* away from the drives, its no wonder a side intake/rear exhaust config is so horrible.  Even the Corsairs, with high static pressure, couldn't get enough air over the drives when using them as side intake (unless I turned them up to afterburner on the fan controller).  With the 3.5" bays populated with standard-height  drives, there is literally 1/2mm of space or less between the top of the drive and the top of the cutout in the metal drive bay side wall -- hardly enough room for air from high pressure fans, much less the gentle breeze the stock fans put out (and virtually no space for forced air under the drives to cool the breadboard).  This case design is horrible on so many fronts, I discover more each time I take a close look at it!!!

 

Also have been opening the side access panel a few inches at a time to simulate me venting it instead of the server door (as I believe Gary Case mentioned, to have air come straight across the drives if using the side fans as exhaust).  So far if it makes a difference I can't tell, however I am going to get a parity check started in the next couple of days so I can really see what helps.  May end up keeping the front door solid, and venting the opposite side of the case instead.  Or vent both the opposite wall AND the front door.

 

So far with the front door removed the Corsairs (side exhaust config) are showing the most promise, however they are insanely loud and I am barely using their potential by putting them on a fan controller.  The Gentle Typhoons are $22-25 a pop, and spending another $75 on this case doesn't seem like its the most interesting option at this point.  I may try a third Corsair at the rear ($), or at the very least the Lian Li (free but loud unless I drop the voltage), or the 140mm option, to see if I can get more air flowing across the drives. 

 

As an aside, where (physically) is the temp sensor located on a hard disk?  Even the cache drive, showing 44*C (111*F) in unraid, is cool to the touch.  I'm guessing this is internal platter temperature?  Or temp on the ICs on the breadboard on the bottom of the drive (most of which are pointed up into the drive these days, so all I can put my fingers on are the circuit traces, and even they don't feel super hot)?  Just curious why all of my drives feel cool to the touch despite their reported temps.

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I am debating trying the Nidec/Scythe Gentle Typhoons. 

 

All the vital cooling in my house is running with Gentle Typhoons.  My gaming rig's H100i has a pair of 120mm Gentle Typhoons (the 1250rpm version), and my server's main cooling is a 1500rpm Gentle Typhoon.  The air flow from those things is immense, and they don't need any rubber mounting or such-like as they run so smooth.  I like seeing a fan take 15-20 secs to stop spinning from ~1000rpm after powered off.  Big heavy motor and beautifully made bearings.

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The Gentle Typhoons are indeed very nice fans ... haven't done any wholesale replacements; but did buy one for a system that had the fan fail, and I've been very impressed at both the airflow and the noise level.

 

Did you block off the area around the drive cage to prevent force the air path across the drives?  [The mod Daniel did]      From Daniel's experience, it really seems like that's all you need to do to get excellent airflow and good cooling.

 

FWIW, running hot (your old 7200 rpm drive) is a very good sign that a drive is failing.  Low 40's isn't bad; but if it starts running close to 50 I'd replace the drive.

 

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Gary, this is why I am replacing the 320GB Maxtor with the 2TB Red, and the cache drive is just there to fill up space and generate heat, its pretty much optional in this particular build.  I have all drive bays filled, including one bay with a dead 80GB drive, just to create a worst-case scenario from an airflow standpoint.  I was doing some benchmarking with and without the cache drive so if it fails, its not a big deal.  In fairness to the Maxtor, it came with a system I bought in 2000, and its still running every bit as fast (and hot!) as it was back then!

 

Does anyone have any experience with the Gentle Typhoon vs the SilenX Red?  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835226042&cm_re=silenx-_-35-226-042-_-Product

 

I have a couple in my main unraid server and they've been in service for years.  Wondering how the Typhoons compare in noise and CFM.  Nidec lists their stats in cubic meters per hour, but google tells me that the rating Nidec lists is equivalent to 50CFM, which is a far cry from the 74CFM claimed by SilenX, yet every review I read says the Typhoons move a ton of air.  Curious if anyone has any direct experience comparing both.  Also found a very favorable looking alternative at a price that is impossible to beat:

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835553009&cm_re=cougar_turbine-_-35-553-009-_-Product

 

May have to order a set just for giggles based on reviews and price-per-fan.

 

As always, comments welcome.

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Haven't used the SilenX Red, so can't say ... 'nor have I used the Cougar units, but at $30 for 4 fans it's certainly intriguing ... hard to believe it'll be the same quality as some of the others you're looking at; but it just may be => every once in a while you do indeed find some nifty bargains.

 

You didn't mention whether or not you'd try adding some baffles to block off the airflow deflection on the sides of the drive cage (like Daniel did).    That certainly made a BIG difference in his case ... I'd think it's worth trying it => you may even find you don't need to replace the fans  :)

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  • 2 months later...

Agree combining the best features of the Q25B and the Q08 would be a neat case.

 

The Q08 is a better choice for a desktop, thanks to the 5.25" slot for an optical drive and the USB3 ports in front ...

 

... but I like the Q25B better for an UnRAID box because of the "cleaner" front and the hot-swap bays.

 

I wish the Q08 had the nice little "pop-on, pop-off" side panels instead of requiring the removal of 6 tiny screws to remove a panel.

 

I may buy 3 BP2SATA adapters for my next Q08 build => this would make the 6 drive bays hot-swap and, except for the screws on the side panels, make it a very near ideal ITX case.

[ http://www.frozencpu.com/products/18360/cpa-630/Lian_Li_BP2SATA_Dual_Bay_to_2_x_HDD_SATA_Hotswap_Backplane_BP2SATA.html ]

 

By the way, Newegg has a VERY good deal on the Q08 at the moment ... net cost of $58.49 through 31 March.  It's 30% off with a promo code, plus has a $15 rebate.

 

Buy some thumb screws! It'll at least lower your pain when you have to remove them.

 

3x8mmx50pcsplastic-font-b-computer-b-font-font-b-thumb-b-font-font-b-screw-b-font.jpg

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Agree combining the best features of the Q25B and the Q08 would be a neat case.

 

The Q08 is a better choice for a desktop, thanks to the 5.25" slot for an optical drive and the USB3 ports in front ...

 

... but I like the Q25B better for an UnRAID box because of the "cleaner" front and the hot-swap bays.

 

I wish the Q08 had the nice little "pop-on, pop-off" side panels instead of requiring the removal of 6 tiny screws to remove a panel.

 

I may buy 3 BP2SATA adapters for my next Q08 build => this would make the 6 drive bays hot-swap and, except for the screws on the side panels, make it a very near ideal ITX case.

[ http://www.frozencpu.com/products/18360/cpa-630/Lian_Li_BP2SATA_Dual_Bay_to_2_x_HDD_SATA_Hotswap_Backplane_BP2SATA.html ]

 

By the way, Newegg has a VERY good deal on the Q08 at the moment ... net cost of $58.49 through 31 March.  It's 30% off with a promo code, plus has a $15 rebate.

 

Buy some thumb screws! It'll at least lower your pain when you have to remove them.

 

3x8mmx50pcsplastic-font-b-computer-b-font-font-b-thumb-b-font-font-b-screw-b-font.jpg

 

Have you tried that on a Q08? I seem to remember the screws being smaller than regular rear case screws. But you could just tap them out with the thumb screws if they are smaller.

 

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...  Buy some thumb screws! It'll at least lower your pain when you have to remove them.

 

You clearly have not seen a Q08  :)

... when I noted it required "... the removal of 6 tiny screws to remove a panel ..."  perhaps I should have said it required " ... the removal of 6 tiny screws to remove a panel."  8) 8)

 

 

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