Considering an Upgrade - Looking for advice

My MB / CPU are nearing 6 years old now.  They were pretty lightweight to begin with even at that time and now it seems after some testing, they are probably the bottleneck in my parity checks.  It looks like dual drive parity is finally approaching the upper burner (read that somewhere here) so between that and the age, I'm beginning to think about an upgrade. 

(I'm rationalizing needing an upgrade, work with me here)  :)

So here is the core system:

Antec 1200 (definitely keeping this)

Biostar TA790GXE 128M / AMD Athalon II x2 3.0 (UPGRADE)

8 GB OCZ DDR 1066  (need advice here)

Corsair HX750 PSU (definitely keeping this)

Supermicro AOC-SAS2LP-MV8 (hey this one is brand new)

So Question 1:  Do I need to upgrade memory.  Certainly this is old stuff, but how important is it to unRAID to have the speediest RAM?  I think 8 GB is more than sufficient so all I'be doing is getting faster RAM.  Thoughts?

Question 2 is MB and this is what I'm thinking:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182836

It has 10% off ending tomorrow, but not sure i'm jumping on spending more money that fast. 

What do you think of this board?

It has 8 SATA ports, nice but not sure what this means:

- 6x SATA3 (6Gbps) ports via PCH

- 2x SATA3 (6Gbps) ports via ASM1061

As a side note, I don't actually use any PCI slots, but I do have two of these, and they lock themselves over a slot to stay in place, so the PCI's work well:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817998183&cm_re=SY-MRA25023-_-17-998-183-_-Product

If note this MB, other suggestions?  This is the high end of what I would want to spend so less expensive options are appreciated.

Question 3 is CPU:  A little advice on this one.  I don't run any major add on's but would like to see things not peg out in parity checks and being mindful of the upcoming 2 drive parity (assuming the calcs will take a little more).

I know very little about Xeon chips and what the differences are between the lines.  I can/will do some resaerch if it seems I should go this way but let me start with a few basics:

- Do I need to bother with a Xeon processor, ir is an i3/i5 good enough?  Obviously I know I don't "need" one but is there a reason to go to that expense?

- Will that board even take a Xeon?  it only lists 4th gen i3/i5/i7, but it has an LGA1150 socket and there are a few quad core LGA 1150 Xeon's.

- if yes go with Xeon, then i will have to educate myself a little, but any advice here is helpful.

- If there is no reason for a Xeon, then is an i3 enough, or should i go to an i5? 

So there are the questions as I see them today, any and all help / advice (or even opinions) is appreciated. 

Parity checks don't max out my Celeron J1900, so I don't know why you'd think it'd max out a "real" CPU.

If you're just using UnRAID in it's purest form (file sharing only), then even the slowest Celeron or Pentium will do the job just fine.  You'll only need an i3 or i5 if you're doing Plex with transcoding, or running VMs.

A Xeon E3 is basically an i5 or i7 with ECC and VT-D enabled, there's very little difference.

Finally, RAM speed isn't critical. 

Read this: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=39125.msg386462#msg386462

Parity checks don't max out my Celeron J1900, so I don't know why you'd think it'd max out a "real" CPU.

 

If you're just using UnRAID in it's purest form (file sharing only), then even the slowest Celeron or Pentium will do the job just fine.  You'll only need an i3 or i5 if you're doing Plex with transcoding, or running VMs.

 

A Xeon E3 is basically an i5 or i7 with ECC and VT-D enabled, there's very little difference.

 

Finally, RAM speed isn't critical.

I've been going through trying to solve slowing parity check speeds:

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=41687.0

During this process I realized my CPU utilization was over 90% during a parity check at 80ish MB/Sec.  I won't rewrite the thread here but It seems like the CPU may be playing a roll.  So my thinking is this will only get worse with dual parity drives.

Thanks for the thoughts, I'll stay with i3. 

Read this: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=39125.msg386462#msg386462

Yes, thanks just found out about this, in my other thread.  (see link above in my other reply). 

I may be going back to the old card, SASLP.  I will probably try booting v5 first and see if it makes a difference.

Anyone with thoughts on that MB?

Based on the above, I'd likely stay with an i3 chip.

MB seems ok. If you don't need the legacy PCI slots try to find one w/o to get you more PCIe?

MB seems ok. If you don't need the legacy PCI slots try to find one w/o to get you more PCIe?

I guess the thought was this.  No need for Legacy PCI but they do serve the purpose with my SSD bays (see above).  Aside from those, the board comes with 3 PCIe X1 and 2 PCIe x16 which is more than most server boards seem to come with anyway, and 8 SATA's on top of that.

I am not sure what this means:

- 6x SATA3 (6Gbps) ports via PCH

- 2x SATA3 (6Gbps) ports via ASM1061

What is PCH vs ASM1061?  Will all of those work for unRaid?

Based on this board having on board Intel NIC's, I would only need 1 - PCIeX1 and 1-PCIe X8 (for whenever the SAS2LP thing gets worked out).  So this board leaves me some room for unforeseen.

I guess I'm just asking if anyone has other / better suggestions out there.

You could go with one of the many Server grade boards Supermicro produces (that use a server chipset).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182822R

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182820R

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182819R

All should do you well. They are short 2 SATA ports than the one you pointed out but they have IPMI, an onboard USB port for unRAID OS, and more PCIe slots.

For CPU, it really does depend on what you want to do. I went with a lowly Celeron G1840 and it serves me well for parity checks, plugins and dockers. When it comes to VM's it does run them but won't passthrough a USB of GPU. For that you need VT-d support which comes with Xeon's, i5's, and i7's.

What do you run on your server? Plex? Deluge/transmission? etc. will help answer the CPU question.

I guess the thought was this.  No need for Legacy PCI but they do serve the purpose with my SSD bays (see above).  Aside from those, the board comes with 3 PCIe X1 and 2 PCIe x16 which is more than most server boards seem to come with anyway, and 8 SATA's on top of that.

I am not sure what this means:

- 6x SATA3 (6Gbps) ports via PCH

- 2x SATA3 (6Gbps) ports via ASM1061

 

What is PCH vs ASM1061?  Will all of those work for unRaid?

 

Two of the Sata ports are on Asmedia 1601 controller, I have the Asrock B75 Pro3-M which uses the same controller and it works great with Unraid V6, don't remember if I used it on V5.

You could go with one of the many Server grade boards Supermicro produces (that use a server chipset).

Supermicro server boards are always a good option, love the IPMI, but I believe they require ECC memory, at least my X9SCL-F does, unless X10 series are different you won’t be able to use your ram.

A few thoughts (some have already been noted) ...

"Question 1:  Do I need to upgrade memory" ==>  Yes.  What you have is DDR2 memory;  virtually all systems require DDR3 (or, on the newest, DDR4) memory.

"Question 2 is MB " ==>  The board you're looking at is fine.  It's not the "latest & greatest" chipset; but a Z87 is still an excellent choice; and the features of the board match what you want, so it's fine.    As for the SATA ports ... "6 via PCH" simply means the chipset provides 6 ports (via the "Platform Controller Hub") -- and SuperMicro added 2 more via an Asmedia 1061 controller. 

"Question 3 is CPU" ==>  A little extra "headroom" is always a good idea, so I'd go with at least an i3.  Personally, I'd use an i5 so you have vt-d capabilities, just in case you ever want to pass through a device to a VM  [Never know what you might want to do] ... and the extra "horsepower" certainly won't hurt 

Going with a Xeon isn't an option with that motherboard.    If you DID want to go that route, you should pick a board with a C series server class chipset -- you could then use a Xeon, and would also have support for ECC memory, so you'd gain a bit of extra reliability.    But this would definitely add to the cost, and likely put you over your projected budget.

What you've proposed will work just fine for your needs.

A few thoughts (some have already been noted) ...

 

"Question 1:  Do I need to upgrade memory" ==>  Yes.  What you have is DDR2 memory;  virtually all systems require DDR3 (or, on the newest, DDR4) memory.

 

I may have a couple other questions, but isn't a DDR3 slot backwards compatible to DDR2 RAM?

Similar question on EOC memory.  If the board supports EOC than you can not use a non EOC compliant RAM?

A few thoughts (some have already been noted) ...

 

"Question 1:  Do I need to upgrade memory" ==>  Yes.  What you have is DDR2 memory;  virtually all systems require DDR3 (or, on the newest, DDR4) memory.

 

 

I may have a couple other questions, but isn't a DDR3 slot backwards compatible to DDR2 RAM?

 

Similar question on EOC memory.  If the board supports EOC than you can not use a non EOC compliant RAM?

No (DDR2 and DDR3 are NOT pin compatible).

Depends. Id ask the MFG.

Since your DDR is 1066 I thought it was DDR3, my mistake, you will have to by new RAM either way.

Pretty sure Supermicro X10 series require ECC but as you have to buy new RAM anyway, if you decide for a server board ECC RAM is not much more expensive, and you’ll have extra protection.

A few thoughts (some have already been noted) ...

 

"Question 2 is MB " ==>  The board you're looking at is fine.  It's not the "latest & greatest" chipset; but a Z87 is still an excellent choice; and the features of the board match what you want, so it's fine.    As for the SATA ports ... "6 via PCH" simply means the chipset provides 6 ports (via the "Platform Controller Hub") -- and SuperMicro added 2 more via an Asmedia 1061 controller. 

 

Going with a Xeon isn't an option with that motherboard.    If you DID want to go that route, you should pick a board with a C series server class chipset -- you could then use a Xeon, and would also have support for ECC memory, so you'd gain a bit of extra reliability.    But this would definitely add to the cost, and likely put you over your projected budget.

 

What you've proposed will work just fine for your needs.

What is the benefit of a board like the Z87 supermicro vs picking Z97 desktop board, other than dual NIC's?  The Z97 can be had probably a little cheaper for a good board.

I think based on the cost for the Xeon and EEC RAM I would not get to this level of expense.

Actually, if you're not going to move t a C series chipset board with ECC support, there's no reason you shouldn't use a newer Z97 based desktop board with the features you want.  Asus, AsRock, Gigabyte, etc. all make some nice Z97 boards that cost significantly less than the SuperMicro Z87.    Just be sure that what you select has enough PCIe slots for what you want to use ... e.g. more than one x16 slot is a good idea.

For example, this board seems like a nice bargain choice ... and is only $94 with the current rebate:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157503

Actually, if you're not going to move t a C series chipset board with ECC support, there's no reason you shouldn't use a newer Z97 based desktop board with the features you want.  Asus, AsRock, Gigabyte, etc. all make some nice Z97 boards that cost significantly less than the SuperMicro Z87.    Just be sure that what you select has enough PCIe slots for what you want to use ... e.g. more than one x16 slot is a good idea.

 

For example, this board seems like a nice bargain choice ... and is only $94 with the current rebate:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157503

So a couple questions still come to mind.

1.  I'm sure the answer to this is, "there is no way to know" but I'll ask anyway.

- Since the SAS2LP issue seems to affect some but not everyone, and most of the comments in that thread seem to say it's the right (or rather wrong) combination of hardware that causes the trouble, is there any reason to believe a Supermicro board and the supermicroeSAS2LP will play better together in unRaid?  As I type this in, I'm realizing there is likely no connection, but I'll let it stand anyway.  I admit it seems to be a shot in the dark.

2.  Does anyone really see a benefit from dual NIC's?  I think the only benefit is if I was streaming that much at one time, OR one NIC failed.  True?

Outside of that, I can probably pic a Z97 board, have bought them a number of times and have a generation older ASUS Extreme 4 (think a Z87) in my desktop now

1.  I'm sure the answer to this is, "there is no way to know" but I'll ask anyway.

- Since the SAS2LP issue seems to affect some but not everyone, and most of the comments in that thread seem to say it's the right (or rather wrong) combination of hardware that causes the trouble, is there any reason to believe a Supermicro board and the supermicroeSAS2LP will play better together in unRaid?  As I type this in, I'm realizing there is likely no connection, but I'll let it stand anyway.  I admit it seems to be a shot in the dark.

You're right ... there's no real way to know except to try it.

2.  Does anyone really see a benefit from dual NIC's?  I think the only benefit is if I was streaming that much at one time, OR one NIC failed.  True?

If you were teaming the NICs you could get a higher bandwidth and/or fault tolerance.    Other than that, there's no need for them.    On boards with IPMI (nothing you're looking at) the 2nd NIC is often dedicated to the IPMI function.

 

1.  I'm sure the answer to this is, "there is no way to know" but I'll ask anyway.

- Since the SAS2LP issue seems to affect some but not everyone, and most of the comments in that thread seem to say it's the right (or rather wrong) combination of hardware that causes the trouble, is there any reason to believe a Supermicro board and the supermicroeSAS2LP will play better together in unRaid?  As I type this in, I'm realizing there is likely no connection, but I'll let it stand anyway.  I admit it seems to be a shot in the dark.

The issue is present in my two Supermicro boards, X7SBE and X9SCL-F, haven’t tested on the newer X10 series but would expect similar results.

In fact, I’m almost sure this issue affects everyone using the SAS2LP, but some are much more affected than others, best case I’ve seen around the forum is about 90Mb/s for a fully loaded card.

 

1.  I'm sure the answer to this is, "there is no way to know" but I'll ask anyway.

- Since the SAS2LP issue seems to affect some but not everyone, and most of the comments in that thread seem to say it's the right (or rather wrong) combination of hardware that causes the trouble, is there any reason to believe a Supermicro board and the supermicroeSAS2LP will play better together in unRaid?  As I type this in, I'm realizing there is likely no connection, but I'll let it stand anyway.  I admit it seems to be a shot in the dark.

 

The issue is present in my two Supermicro boards, X7SBE and X9SCL-F, haven’t tested on the newer X10 series but would expect similar results.

 

In fact, I’m almost sure this issue affects everyone using the SAS2LP, but some are much more affected than others, best case I’ve seen around the forum is about 90Mb/s for a fully loaded card.

Thanks that puts the question to rest.  90 is substantially better than my 40 ish..  Soon I will test rolling back to V5 just as a test,  and then put the old card back in.

Still not leaping forward too fast with this and haven't decided whether to go for the expense of a Serverr grade system or not.  On the whole, do you guys think its worth the extra cost to go with a server grade board, Xeon chip, EEC Ram?  Here are two options I was considering:

Server Grade $545 total

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=SUPERMICRO+MBD-X10SAE-O+ATX&N=-1&isNodeId=1

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117319&cm_re=Intel_Xeon_E3-1226_v3_Haswell_3.3GHz_8MB-_-19-117-319-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148770

Z97 $300

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130772

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116946

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231314

I always said I would go server grade when I upgraded, but having a hard time justifying it's worthwhile.  The Z97 example isn't exactly perefered.  If I go that way would likely be searching for a bit yet.  I'm just looking for overall thoughts on A vs B.

My view is simple:  If I'm going to build a fault-tolerant server, I want fault-tolerant RAM as well.    So I'd spring for the server-grade board with ECC RAM.    Actually, I'd like even more reliable buffered RAM ... but I'm willing to compromise with unbuffered ECC RAM, which I think is plenty reliable as long as you don't install more than two modules.

Your comparison above really isn't fair, you're comparing a 7376 Passmark CPU (Xeon) with a 4791 Passmark CPU (Core i3).  A 7000+ Passmark Core i5 is going to cost ~$100 more.  I know your decision is more about "server grade", but either you need 7000+ Passmarks or you don't.  You can put together a system of server grade components without a Xeon if you don't need that much horsepower.  Heck, you can buy a server grade Atom based motherboard with the CPU on it for $150, if that's all you need...

The things that drive you to a more expensive server grade setup like the one you propose are the needs for a combination of lots of CPU, ECC, and vt-d. If you only want server grade and ECC there are cheaper ways to do this.

Your comparison above really isn't fair, you're comparing a 7376 Passmark CPU (Xeon) with a 4791 Passmark CPU (Core i3).  A 7000+ Passmark Core i5 is going to cost ~$100 more.  I know your decision is more about "server grade", but either you need 7000+ Passmarks or you don't.  You can put together a system of server grade components without a Xeon if you don't need that much horsepower.  Heck, you can buy a server grade Atom based motherboard with the CPU on it for $150, if that's all you need...

 

The things that drive you to a more expensive server grade setup like the one you propose are the needs for a combination of lots of CPU, ECC, and vt-d. If you only want server grade and ECC there are cheaper ways to do this.

I am all ears on a cheaper way to do sever grade and ECC.  No I don't think I need a 7000 passmark CPU, but wasn't seeing less expensive options for that board.  I will be the first to admit I am not as versed in sever grade hardware, more on the PC end.