Buying & Selling Licence Keys


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Since the posting by BJP999 is locked (http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=38088.0), no replies are allowed.

 

However, I have to say that I really do not agree with that statement at all.

 

While it is true that in the United States (of which I am not a resident) there is no rights granted to the purchaser of licence to software to be able to sell it to another person, other jurisdictions (the EU - of which I am also not a resident) guarantee the right of the purchaser to be able to resell it.

 

http://www.wired.com/2010/09/first-sale-doctrine/

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120703/11345519566/eu-court-says-yes-you-can-resell-your-software-even-if-software-company-says-you-cant.shtml

 

In Canada (where I am a resident), I am unsure of exactly what my rights are. 

 

But, Limetech has not lost any money by allowing the resale of it licence.  There are x computers (actually x-1) running unRaid prior to the sale.  After the sale, there are still x computers running unRaid. 

 

Would I ever sell my licence.  Definitely Not.  I'll be using unRaid until the day I die.  (And then haunting my wife to make sure she keeps the server's running)

 

Do I think that I have the right to sell it regardless of where I live - Absolutely

 

 

 

Also, I do not believe that the posting should have been locked and implied that it is official company policy. 

 

The statement as posted is only valid in the United States, and even then is a decision made by the company.  Official company policy statements should only be made by officials from the company - not by third parties.

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It's a slippery slope of interpretation.

 

In the case of an unRAID license key the sale of hardware and software license cannot be stopped off the forum, however the policy has always been that the original purchaser is still the licensee.

 

This leaves any form of replacement due to failure, or direct support as a customer, in potentially unsupportable state.

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It's a slippery slope of interpretation.

 

In the case of an unRAID license key the sale of hardware and software license cannot be stopped off the forum, however the policy has always been that the original purchaser is still the licensee.

 

This leaves any form of replacement due to failure, or direct support as a customer, in potentially unsupportable state.

If that is the *official* policy (as stated by someone who is not a company official), then any customer residing in the EU has a valid argument that LT is in violation of the law.

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Legalities aside, the cost of the license is minimal, and if you are going to use UnRAID I think it's reasonable to ensure that the funding goes to LT directly to help continue growth of the company and product.

 

If you bought a $60 license and no longer require it then fine,  put it aside and trust that you likely got value for the cost. Let the new people buy and support UnRAID.

 

This is one of the reasons these licenses should not be forever upgradable without additional cost - in my opinion anyways.

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If that is the *official* policy (as stated by someone who is not a company official), then any customer residing in the EU has a valid argument that LT is in violation of the law.

 

License is one thing. Support is another.

 

This is likely why I've seen companies move over to separating the two. The initial purchase provides for the license of the software that is transferable, but if you want support then you have to make certain you have a support contract. The support contracts are non-transferable and sometimes done on a per incident or per year basis.

 

 

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If that is the *official* policy (as stated by someone who is not a company official), then any customer residing in the EU has a valid argument that LT is in violation of the law.

 

License is one thing. Support is another.

 

This is likely why I've seen companies move over to separating the two. The initial purchase provides for the license of the software that is transferable, but if you want support then you have to make certain you have a support contract. The support contracts are non-transferable and sometimes done on a per incident or per year basis.

Sure, I can see that, in the cases where there is a separate support contract.  I don't believe that Limetech currently separates the two.

 

I'm not a lawyer however.

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I was trying to state the policy as I understand it today, and warn folks that are buying "used" keys of the impact.

 

I do think it is bad form to advertise keys on THIS forum, which is funded by LimeTech. And trolling for sellers seems even worse. LimeTech pays for this space and has every right (in my opinion) to create a use policy prohibiting such posts. If I felt I was authorized to sell a key and wanted to do so, I would find another way to advertise it and not depend on the company selling the software to attract the buyers.

 

I do not speak for LimeTech and none of my comments should be interpreted as coming from them.

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  • 2 months later...

So here's a question, what if someone builds a server and then sells that server to someone - including the USB stick.  How would that work?

 

According to the newly revised and formalize licensing policies, the license could not be sold with the system.  The policy states: "Registration keys are not transferable."  [see http://lime-technology.com/new-licensing-announcements/ ]

 

I suspect that a request to LimeTech to transfer a license that was in fact sold with a complete system would be honored, but I do not KNOW that for a fact ... and the policy clearly does not require this.    But LimeTech sells complete systems; their partner vendors (e.g. Greenleaf) sell systems; etc. -- and surely they allow those systems to be sold intact.

 

 

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It is worth adding, that whilst in the EU licences can be sold, the licensor is entitled to make a charge for administration purposes.  That charge could easily be $100.

 

I remember a case very early in my career where the software vendor inserted a time bomb and only gave the code to disable it after his invoices were paid, yet another case where the software vendor came back and disabled the software after it had been resold against the terms of the licence.  In both cases the software vendor was fined very heavily and had to pay all the costs incurred by the buyer, including consequential losses. The ruling of the court was that such activity could only be legal if it was specifically a term of the initial contract.

 

Limetech need the revenue, it's not really fair to sell on your licence keys.

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Gary - I'd bet the vendors will register the USB keys to the buyer of the system. I'd also bet there is an agreement to cover the vendor case which doesn't apply to end users.

 

I'm CERTAIN that's the case for the "official" vendors => but the same general question applies to any full system that's being sold intact ... whether built by the seller, purchased from LimeTech, or purchased from a LimeTech-approved vendor.

 

I've built a few systems for others myself, but always purchased the keys in their names, so there was no issue (and in fact these were before the new formalized policy).

 

For ANY system that's being sold complete, I think there should be a mechanism to allow a change in registration of the key.    There actually IS if the key is a lower level than Pro => simply buying an upgrade allows the upgraded key to be registered in whatever name is desired.    But there's no formal way to transfer a Pro key.    Several of us advocated for a "transfer fee" when the new licensing model was being discussed, but that was not part of the final rules.  I would be surprised in Tom declined to allow a transfer if asked and the key wasn't simply being sold by itself, but as part of a complete system -- he may charge a nominal transfer fee, but that would certainly seem fair.

 

 

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I would just like to add my comments, as a mod on another, very large community, we have had questions regarding legalities by users from other countries.

 

I believe in the end, and again I am no lawyer myself, the rules around the sale of the product and transfers and such are dictated by the country in which the company is located. Hence, you may be an EU customer, but the specific laws of the EU allowing license transfer may not apply as you purchased this from a US based company. This regulation would only apply to licenses purchased from companies in, or registered in, the EU. As a US company, they only need comply with US regulations.

 

The reverse may also be true. A US customer buys a license key from a EU company, they could reasonably expect to be able to transfer that license, because of EU regulations on the company and not the purchaser.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I know someone who is switching to a different storage OS other than unraid. I was going to buy their keys off of them as well as some hardware. Other than the lack of financial income to LT, is there a downside? I'd consider a donation to LT in the future as well.

 

You may run into issues if the USB stick were to fail and you needed to get a replacement. If the license owner is a friend and would work with you in this situation, you'd be ok. But if this is a stranger, you could find yourself having to pony up for another key.

 

The official policy is that keys are not transferable.

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Agree with bjp999's comments.

 

Two other thoughts ...

 

=>  Since the keys are not transferable, your flash drive will show "Registered to" your friend -- you can't change that.  Likely not a big deal, but just something you should be aware of.  As Brian noted, as long as this is a friend who will work with you in the future should you need a replacement key (He would have to get the replacement) then you're okay.

 

=>  If the keys happen to be Plus keys, there IS a way you can transfer them.    Just buy an upgrade to Pro.  The upgrade from Plus to Pro is $59, and is good for up to 2 upgrades, so you could upgrade both of the keys.  When you buy an upgrade, the registration information is changed to whoever is buying the upgrade.

 

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