Upgrade to Kaby Lake i7 7700 possible ?

Hi,

im currently running unraid on an i5 6600 s.1151 4 cores, no HT.

got some dockers running and 2 VM´s (win 10), both VM´s assigned to all 4 CPU´s, splitting 1,2 3,4 didnt made too much difference here.

so i would upgrade to a i7 and split 4 + 4 (2 + 2HT each).

question now is, kaby lake already supported or better get skylake i7 6700 ?

also need IGPU passthrough on 1 of my VM´s (workstation), 2nd win10 VM has its own GTX1070 passthrough for media and gaming.

anyone already has a kaby lake running ?

for advices thanks ahead.

I assume UnRAID will run fine on a Kaby Lake CPU, but do not know that for sure.

However ... the difference in CPU power between your i5-6600 and an i7-7700 is only about a 50% bump => significant, of course, but it may not be the major increase you seem to be hoping for.

Two things I'd consider before revamping the CPU/motherboard =>  (a)  How much memory do you have?  and (b)  Do you have an SSD drive for the VM's ?

... if adding memory and a fast SSD to contain the VM's still doesn't give you the performance you want, you may want to consider moving to a Socket 2011 based system and a hex-core (or better) CPU.

hmm,

i use 32 GB DDR4 Ram, VM´s are on un unassigned SSD installed as SATA device.

and performance is not bad, specially each VM by its own is really good.

just when both are running and even more or less idle ... its signifikant slower on both systems, nvm wich one im currently on and the other is idle ...

and turning always one off makes it not really comftable cause USB awake is not possible afaik ...

so that is my intention ...

---

so, splitting 4 + 4 wouldnt help to that CPU pinning i read about here (i guess thats what i "feel" here when both VM´s up) ?

Is your 32GB of RAM with 2 16GB modules or 4 8GB modules?

If it's 4 modules, try removing two of the modules and see if you notice an improvement.  Yes, you'll have less memory; but you will also significantly reduce the bus loading on the memory and data buses -- which may actually speed up the memory a bit.

In any event, since the VM's are performing very well when you only run one, then indeed a 50% bump in performance may be all you need to do what you want -- so a move to an i7-7700 will probably resolve your current issue.

thanks for the reply, and yes, currently 4 * 8 installed, i ll give it a try

and may another question, unraid itself and its plugins, dockers, etc ... always running on core 0 or 0+1, right ?

thanks again

... and may another question, unraid itself and its plugins, dockers, etc ... always running on core 0 or 0+1, right ?

I don't know, but I doubt it.  I'd assume the OS takes advantage of the multi-core CPU and allocates threads to all of the cores to maximize performance.

ok, thanks again, ordered the i7 7700, hopefully that will help me a little

I assume you checked the CPU support list for your motherboard to confirm it supports the Kaby Lake processor.  It most likely does, since it's the same socket, but it's a good idea to confirm it -- and it may require a BIOS upgrade to provide that support.

IF you need a BIOS upgrade, be sure to do that BEFORE you switch the CPU.

If you're not sure, post the make/model of your motherboard and I'll check it for you.

Should be fine.

MSI m5 z170

Thanks alot.

Yes, you're clearly fine -- the supported CPU list clearly includes all of the Kabylake CPU's

https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/support/Z170A-GAMING-M7.html#support-cpu

Yes, you're clearly fine -- the supported CPU list clearly includes all of the Kabylake CPU's

https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/support/Z170A-GAMING-M7.html#support-cpu

Thanks for taking a look, i have the m5 actually

https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/support/Z170A-GAMING-M5.html#support-cpu

same list, just different BIOS thats why i fall over it cause i just updated mine to 1D

thanks again

may another question while we talk about performance, i have 2 ssd´s

SAMSNUNG 950pro NVME M.2 SSD as cache drive

SAMSUNG 840 SATA SSD as VM Drive

so my cache drive is the very fast one, the regular SSD is the one for my VM´s, i hope that was the correct setup according to overall performance ?

running some dockers like PLEX, TVHeadend, Apache, JDown, .. may some more to follow

little update

iz 7700 is here, update went smooth and yes,its definately a overall gain in performance on both VMs.

worki station and media gaming station profits.

i assigned cpus 0,4,1,5 to workstation, 2,6,3,7 to media / gaming, i guess thats the correct order so each VM will have 2 real and 2 HT cores.

gaming performance still not like bare metal, bt way better ...

CPU usage is still a little too high in my opinion, exmple, 1080i LIVE TV from tvheadend takes about 25 % from each core ... gaming maxes from 70 to max ... but with some air now ... so no more hard frame drops like before.

workstation is just overall a little smoother, that feels now like bare metall to me

about media, i tested a libreelec install and that one uses a lot less cpu, but sadly it seems no x265 support, 4k movies are unwatchable

thanks for the hints again

may another little question, if i would replace my mainboard now with an Z270 chipset, besides hardware assigning like USB passthrough wich of cource will not fit any more,

the array and datas wont be affected ? cause diffrent sata controller and so on ?

i assume this shouldnt be the big deal, but wanted to ask ahead

Shouldn't be any issue at all => just do the update; be sure all of your drives are connected; and then boot to the flash drive.

Everything should work exactly as it does now 

about media, i tested a libreelec install and that one uses a lot less cpu, but sadly it seems no x265 support, 4k movies are unwatchable

Due to HDCP 2.2 copyright requirements, I think you need a Kaby Lake 270 chipset motherboard (might even be chipset 370) for 4K video including 4K Netflix.

It's not the chipset, it's the overall stringent requirements involving the processor (10-bit HEVC), the video card, OS support, and the playback device.    To stream 4k video requires at least Windows 10 Anniversary update for the newest HDCP support, along with a compliant video card and video device.

Quite frankly, it's a real PITA that a simple $100 streaming box connected to the TV can do what a high-end PC cannot .. but the content providers are paranoid about PC's being able to copy their HD content.

There's a good overview of the issue here:  http://www.techhive.com/article/3112868/home-tech/why-your-home-theater-pc-still-cant-stream-4k-ultra-hd-video.html

the 4k test was with libreelec and nvidia, and drivers are not supprted yet ...

i changed now to Intel Kaby Lake for Libreelec and 10bit HEVC plays just fine, just audio is still not that good ... dropouts, sometimes some channels from 5.1 are just missing (mostly center ...),

i assume due the "hack" to get intel passthrough running ... so i hope Nvidia will make some linux driver to get it working.

why libreelec, may as note, even with an GTX1070 i still get skipped frames in live TV ... 1080i is the common HDTV provided here in germany and it drops every few minutes,

really sad for such hardware ... but well, its an VM ... but honestly i thought playing some live TV shouldnt be the big deal breaker, also tested with cpu pinning and isolating,

may got a little better then but never really dissappeared ... libreelec has 0 issues with that, thats why i switched, then 1st 4k 10 bit movie and ... after reading i got the info no

driver support yet, only kaby lake ... well, cant get it all actually

my wish setup should be, Intel GPU and Intel audio @ workmashine 24/7 (win 10VM), that works,

Nvidia with libreelec VM as Multimedia 8currently no 4k hevc), Nvidia with win10 VM as Gaming (not that bad but not bare metal ...) - (those switching as needed)

for now i switched intel for multimedia and nvidia as workmashine and gamestream to shield (also not bare metal ...)

lets see what time will bring, rest is superb with dockers and co, really like it and i ll stay on it.

thanks for the info about mainboard upgrade, already thought so but wanted to ask

i ll also switch my memory to 2 * 16 instead 4 * 8 as u suggested less overhead on lanes

I agree that with your hardware a VM should have PLENTY of performance, so I don't think the dropouts are due to virtualization.

... I suspect you're right r.e. it being a driver issue -- hopefully that will be resolved in the not-too-distant future.

Switching to 2 memory modules is also a nice improvement in your memory subsystem ... when you're using unbuffered modules it's always best to limit the bus loading to 2 modules.

just as feedback, replaced mainboard to MSI Z270 M5 with 2 * 16 GB RAM Modules now and all went easy ...

even the syslinux append for isol cpu and stabbing the audio controller, the onboard pci USB passthrough, ... seems to fit like before, so was quite easy

performance i ll check over the weekend and leave some notes here if there are any improvements.

for now i switched some cpu layouts

syslinux isolcpus=2,3,6,7 so unraid should use only 1st 4 cores, leave the others untouched

VM 1 workstation (Intel GPU and audio, unassigned SSD), use the same 4 cores for everything (i guess the emulatorpin is for the CPU emulation tasks or ...)

  <cputune>

    <vcpupin vcpu='0' cpuset='0'/>

    <vcpupin vcpu='1' cpuset='1'/>

    <vcpupin vcpu='2' cpuset='4'/>

    <vcpupin vcpu='3' cpuset='5'/>

    <emulatorpin cpuset='0-1,4'/>

  </cputune>

VM 2 gaming or Libreelec (Nvidia gpu and audio, unassigned SSD), tell them to use the last 4 cores and also use the first 4 for those emulation ...

  <cputune>

    <vcpupin vcpu='0' cpuset='2'/>

    <vcpupin vcpu='1' cpuset='3'/>

    <vcpupin vcpu='2' cpuset='6'/>

    <vcpupin vcpu='3' cpuset='7'/>

    <emulatorpin cpuset='0-1,4'/>

  </cputune>

both mashines also on the same physical SSD.

may any hints about improvements ? before i ended with all 8 cpus for all ... waste of ressources cause gaming and libreelec are not that heavy used

thanks agais

Liking the embrace of latest consumer tech you have picked out for the build. Glad the upgrades are going well.

Maybe gary or another elite member can answer this first question.

Since the z170 and z270 have dual (even triple) m.2 slots + 2× ssd .how would this look in terms of use them for cache.

Example 2x 512gb sm p961's  + 2x 250gb sam evo 850 ssd.

Which would work better for cache pool vs isolating for win10 vm.

@alt  i too had the msi m5 gaming (waiting to be put on ebay this week)  and have upgraded that to the asus max hero 9. Main reason is for the extra 4pcie lanes and because the m5 is yet to be EKWB confirmed. Cpu block doesnt fit well on the back plate. Just something to consider.

@alt 2nd question were you able to use any of the msi software for win10 via the vm? I mean the cpu/temp monitoring over clocking etc.

Upgrading to the z270 making my pc look like a bloody xmas tree!  wasnt part of the plan ...it just happened

I don't know if UnRAID has support for the M.2 units yet, so I can't answer that question, except in a hypothetical way => IF the current version of UnRAID supports M.2's, then yes, a pair of M.2's and a pair of SSDs would collectively provide superb performance.    Which would be better for a cache pool vs. a dedicated VM drive (via unallocated devices) would depend on just what your use case was.    I'd think in most cases the pair of SSDs would be fine for the cache pool, and dedicated an M.2 to the VM would provide the best performance possible for that.

If Johnnie.Black is following this, he can probably answer this more definitively.

... sent Jonnie a PM to see if he can answer this for you 

Thanks 

Sorry didnt mean to hijack this thread,  curiosity killed the cat.

I did have one m.2 on my x11ssh-ln4f and its performance was insane for normal nas usage.  I do have another thread going about my own server config dilemmas.

Needless to say im considering combining the new pc build i just finished water cooling and run unraid on it instead of bare metal win10.

I need some kind of blog to showcase progress and thoughts i think i wouldn't know where to start with that.

unRAID supports m.2 devices since v6.2, as many as your board supports, on v6.3 there's currently an issue and temperature is not displayed, but other than that they work great.