Should my server transcode?

In reference to HTPCs, what does it mean when the server transcodes?  Does that means I can use lower-end hardware on the HTPC because the server is doing all the work? 

What are the advantages of having the server do it over the HTPC?  I am trying to decide how much horsepower I need on the server end, and whether or not I need it to transcode at all.

My take on transcoding...don't do it if at all possible. 

If the server transcodes (through a "media server"), it will convert your file to a format and/or bitrate that is compatible with your media player/HTPC/TV. The DLNA/uPnP protocol is essentially a transcoding media server.

It is a typically a lossy process. If your HTPC or media player supports a wide range of formats, or you only rip your discs to a specific format (supported by your media player) - it is not required.

Benefits:

Potentially reduce cpu requirements (particularly if the format is only software decoded by your HTPC/media player)

Allows playback of media that is not supported by your HTPC

Thanks.  The HTPC aspect is new to me.  I have been toying with XBMC as spare time permits, but am still running tube TVs (no HDMI) so actually implementing this is a ways out.  I wasn't sure if I needed to try to future-proof my unraid server by making it a transcoder. 

My primary format is DVD and Bluray ISOs, and in my efforts to eliminate my cable TV bill, I will be running whatever software is required to download the TV shows the family usually watches (sickbeard etc).

So long as my server can serve up files and media, and download additional content, I can leave the transcoding efforts to the (as yet undetermined) HTPCs?

Correct, I'd guess that most leave it to the HTPC to handle the decoding. 

I'd suggest a media player initially (that supports ISO), but few give you the interface of XBMC. Cheaper, and give you an entry point to serving files without the setup requirements.

In order of $

WDTV Live Streaming

Popcorn Hour

Boxee Box (requires HDMI)

Dune

Should mention that some also use Plex (based off of XBMC) on their unRAID.  I believe that only transcodes if the media player/HTPC doesn't support the format.

You can get some really small and powerful computers these days that I don't think on the fly transcoding is needed for an HTPC. If you plan to stream to your phone or tablet then you Might need to transcode. My Samsung galaxy plays a surprising range of formats.

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My ATI video card in my HTPC that has full hardware acceleration cost $15 on sale. Bluray backups play flawlessly. Average CPU usage during bluray playback is ~6%. It doesn't take a lot for a nice HTPC these days.

I would avoid transcoding. The only time I would do it would be for Ipad or Iphone. I'd use Airvideo.

If you have a HTPC or media-player there should be no need to transcode. They should play my files (mkv, DVD and Blu-ray folders or ISOs) and more in the right resolution/format to the output-device.

Agreed, avoid transcoding when possible. I think the best reason to transcode is if you already have a PS3 or Xbox 360 and don't want to spend money on a dedicated HTPC. If you have the option to build or buy a dedicated HTPC (and take the time to choose a good one!), then transcoding shouldn't be necessary. I prefer to have a low power server that runs 24/7 and a higher power (yet still modest) HTPC that runs only when I need it.

..If you have the option to build or buy a dedicated HTPC (and take the time to choose a good one!)...

Really you don't need to put a lot of thought in to it, especially these days, unless you plan to do gaming or something like that on it. For strictly video playback any old PC that is cable of running a video card made within the last two or three years, a copy of Windows or Ubuntu and XBMC is all you need. Maybe throw in a bluray drive if you want to play back bluray discs. My original HTPC was 4 years old at the time I started using it. I put a $30 dollar nVidia video card in it, loaded Win7 and XBMC and enabled hardware acceleration and it worked great. The only reason I replaced it was because the hard drive in it died so I used it as a chance to replace the whole thing.

..If you have the option to build or buy a dedicated HTPC (and take the time to choose a good one!)...

 

Really you don't need to put a lot of thought in to it, especially these days, unless you plan to do gaming or something like that on it. For strictly video playback any old PC that is cable of running a video card made within the last two or three years, a copy of Windows or Ubuntu and XBMC is all you need. Maybe throw in a bluray drive if you want to play back bluray discs. My original HTPC was 4 years old at the time I started using it. I put a $30 dollar nVidia video card in it, loaded Win7 and XBMC and enabled hardware acceleration and it worked great. The only reason I replaced it was because the hard drive in it died so I used it as a chance to replace the whole thing.

The video part is rather easy to deal with. Trouble begins when you want to play HD audio formats like Dolby True HD or DTS-HD MA on a HTPC.

Or is the Xtreamer Ultra 2 an option?

Transcoding is done on the server to put the video stream into a format your player can play. If the player can play the raw format, transcoding is not needed, if it can't, transcoding is done on the server - basically what I'm saying is it's never done on the client. If you have a powerful HTPC that can play any format and software that can decode the file formats you media is in, you'll never need to transcode.

Long time Plex user, and yes, Plex will transcod when it needs to, and Direct Play when it can. Transcoding really isn't that big an issue if your server is any bit powerful. I have a i3-2100 in my unraid server and it can transcode 2 streams at the same time without issues (maybe 3.. I've just never tried it). I agree it should be avoided if not needed, but I have an HTPC at my main 46" TV running the Plex client so any 1080p/5.1 content running there is not transcoded. Pretty much everything to my ATV in the bedroom or the den is transcoded to 720/2.0, and everything to the iPad is transcoded - all done on the server.

I'm not disagreeing with everyone who says it's best not to transcode if you don't have to, but I have never had ANY issues with it, and having the ability to transcode means you add lightweight clients (ATV or smart TV) to your system and not be limited in the content you can play.

Cheers,

whiteatom

Apologies for hijacking this topic and opening an old thread again but I essentially have the same question:

I'm figuring out if I really need transcoding on my unRAID server (and thus more horsepower) or if a small CPU is enough.

I have a pretty strong XBMC box which I built last year (i3-3225) and which can play everything I throw at it using Gigabit LAN.

What I occassionally would like to do is:

- Play media on portable devices (iPhone, iPad, notebook computer)

- (If possible at all) Stream content from my media server over the internet (e. g. when at a friend's place oder when on the train)

- (If possible at all) Copy stuff from my media server to my iPhone like having an own iTunes (open some app on iPhone showing my media library, select music and videos to download)

I assume I need transcoding for these use cases?

Are the latter two actually possible at all?

Plex does what you want for media.

For remote playback, you will most likely need transcoding because your internet upload speeds are likely not fast enough for streaming high bitrates.

For playback on mobile devices like ipads, phones, etc. you will likely need transcoding because idevices don't support very many codecs and whatever they don't support would have to be transcoded to a format they do support (unless you have jailbroken devices with xbmc)

For idevice usage, plex is the best. It automatically transcodes when necessary, streams remotely, and it can sync media on your portable device for offline viewing and it can be automated.

Apologies for hijacking this topic and opening an old thread again but I essentially have the same question:

 

I'm figuring out if I really need transcoding on my unRAID server (and thus more horsepower) or if a small CPU is enough.

 

I have a pretty strong XBMC box which I built last year (i3-3225) and which can play everything I throw at it using Gigabit LAN.

 

What I occassionally would like to do is:

- Play media on portable devices (iPhone, iPad, notebook computer)

- (If possible at all) Stream content from my media server over the internet (e. g. when at a friend's place oder when on the train)

- (If possible at all) Copy stuff from my media server to my iPhone like having an own iTunes (open some app on iPhone showing my media library, select music and videos to download)

 

I assume I need transcoding for these use cases?

Are the latter two actually possible at all?

The 3 use cases you mention all require Plex (the first two with free version, and the last with a paid version). In all these cases Plex will transcode the media for your end device. You will need a server with reasonable horse power to do this - either UnRAID, or you can install Plex on a second server and point it to UnRAID (i.e. you could do this on your XBMC client behind the scenes).

To clarify on Plex - you can use the free version to stream to any device you like (computer, tablet, phone), although some clients cost money. If you want to cache locally on the client device then I believe you need to purchase a PlexPass.

Cool, thanks for the clarification.

I think it would make most sense to have only one machine running 24/7 and thus to install Plex on the unRAID machine, right? As already asked in the other thread, a Haswell/IvyBridge Celeron would do fine as long as I will be transcoding max. one 1080p movie at a time, right?

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Cool, thanks for the clarification.

 

I think it would make most sense to have only one machine running 24/7 and thus to install Plex on the unRAID machine, right? As already asked in the other thread, a Haswell/IvyBridge Celeron would do fine as long as I will be transcoding max. one 1080p movie at a time, right?

 

 

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Yup. you should be fine with the Celeron, but for the extra $30-60 (depending on which Gen4 Celeron you were looking at) I'd likely move to an I3 just to give you a little extra horsepower for the other things unRAID may be doing for you.

Are you thinking of anything specific? Coz so far I can only think of serving media, transcoding, and downloading/extracting. But maybe I'm not seeing something.

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Are you thinking of anything specific? Coz so far I can only think of serving media, transcoding, and downloading/extracting. But maybe I'm not seeing something.

 

 

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With 6.0 in beta we are moving into virtualization, which may or may be of interest. An I3 is limited in it's options (i.e. you can't do hardware passthrough), but if you want to start looking at moving your apps to a VM then the extra CPU is beneficial. The I3 is still a dual core CPU, but has 4 threads vs 2 on the Celeron.

Once you get into virtual machines your options open up quite significantly. Things you wouldn't/couldn't put on UnRAID today you could load up into a VM without issue and further consolidate your environment. For me I have SAB/SB/Plex in a VM (I will likely add CouchPotato as well), plus I have MySQL as I run XBMC on multiple clients and wanted a central database (Plex is nice for remote/non-standard clients, but XBMC is a far nicer experience in my opinion).

Once you break the bonds of UnRAID and it's requirement to have a really smart guy build a plug-in for you the whole world opens up. I'd rather invest a bit more now to prepare for the possibility than limit yourself right off the bat - budget willing of course.

I have to admit I've never done much with virtualization which probably is the reason why I can't think of many use cases at the moment ;-)

"moving your apps to a VM" means running software on the server like MS Office for example? So something like cloud-based software but local?

And for MySQL I'd need an i3 or higher?

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I have to admit I've never done much with virtualization which probably is the reason why I can't think of many use cases at the moment ;-)

 

"moving your apps to a VM" means running software on the server like MS Office for example? So something like cloud-based software but local?

 

And for MySQL I'd need an i3 or higher?

 

 

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You can run MySQL on a Celeron as well, however any database backend is going to be a more resource intensive app than some of the others.

When I talk about moving apps to a VM I am talking about SAB, Sickbeard, CouchPotato, Plex, etc. While in UnRAID 5.0 (and earlier) we run them all as plugins each item has the risk of impact overall UnRAID stability. Leaving UnRAID clean, and moving all those plugins to a VM is a much better solution.

If you want to get a better understanding go to the LimeTech homepage and click on the Blog link. There is a post on virtualization that gives a good overview of what it is and why you would want it.