File Server noob needs help picking hardware

I recently got the inkling to build a file/print server due to our (my families) computer configuration and my future plans.  My buddy's on OCForums have directed me here, and unRAID looks to be the best solution for me sans the print server.  I've done some research, so i'm not coming into this blind...but I'm still a noob to file servers.  So, here goes...

 

Currently, 2 desktops and a laptop.

 

My desktop (I'm proud of her!):

 

Q9550 E0 @ 3.944GHz (464x8.5) 1.208v

TR-Ultra-120-X, 115CFM Panaflo 120mm fan

Asus P5K Premium @ 1856MHz FSB

Ballistix DDR2-800 (4x1GB) 928MHz 4-4-4-4-8 4-30-7-10-10-3-8-3-4-2T

HD 4850 @ 160/500-2D (1.057v) * 820/1200-3D (1.35v)/2.10v-vmem

HR03-GT 57CFM Panaflo 92mm

Auzentech XPlosion DTS-Interactive

4x640GB SataII in Matrix RAID10 XP-32/Vista-64, Silverstone Zeus 560W

(3)120mm, (2)90mm, (1)250mm case fans in TT Armor case

Canon MP530 AIO printer

 

 

Wife's hand-me-down:

 

P4 3.0E @ 3.6GHz w/ XP-90c

P4P800E-Deluxe

2x512MB DDR-500

AIW X800-XT

2x250GB SataII in RAID0

Antec 480W

Antec 900 case

HP Photosmart 8050

 

spare HDDs: 250GB IDE, 40GB IDE

spare PSU: PC P&C 750W Silencer

 

 

 

What I'd like to do is move the 4x640GB & 2x250GB into the soon-to-be file server.  I'll throw the 40GB IDE in my wife's rig for OS, and I'll get myself a Velociraptor for my own rig's OS.  I've got an external USB enclosure that the 250GB IDE is in and it's probably a good idea to keep it there.

 

I have ~600 DVD's, and the disks are starting to get damaged in the monster case I have due to their own weight (LOL).  Anyway I want to get that data onto a file server along w/ the other ~200GB of data I've accumulated over the years.  My current rig doubles as a HTPC as I have the video and audio running to my projector and stereo in the adjacent room.  It works, but I also plan to build a dedicated HTPC for the living room that runs MS Media Center or similar for ease of use.  I basically want my wife to be able to use it easily.  I'll save my questions about the HTPC for AVS Forum or another thread, though.

 

 

 

I'm thinking that the 6 HDD configuration will be plenty for us.  I believe that the size of HDDs will increase rapidly enough for me to keep up w/ my collection, and i can just swap out to larger HDDs as i need to, and sell the old HDDs.

 

Motherboard:

Asus P5B-VM DO - http://www.xpcgear.com/p5bvmdo.html seems to have the best price on this new at $106.  However, i can also get it refurbed from http://www.pugetsystems.com/store/item.php?cat=Motherboard&id=4334&com=8eba3043 for $79.  Should i risk it?

 

Abit AB9 Pro - $85 on NewEgg.  This one looks good as well, but then i need to get a gfx card.  Not that big a deal, but since this and the Asus above are both 965 I'd probably rather go w/ the Asus do to unRAID compatibility.

 

Asus P5QL-EM or P5Q-EM - $105/$135 on NewEgg.  These are G43/G45 chipset boards.  I'd much rather get 1 of these boards due to the more efficient NB (and comparable price), but I'm scared about unRAID compatibility.  Does anyone have any experience w/ either of these boards?  Any other P/G-43/45 board i should should look at?

 

 

 

CPU:

E430 Celeron Single-core $40

E1200 Celeron Dual-core $50

E2180 C2D $70

E5200 45nm Dual-Core $90

 

 

Will my CPU choice make any difference?  Does the cache make a difference?  I'd like to keep this as cheap as possible, but i am also tempted by the extra speed and lower power the new 45nm E5200 brings to the table.  I think a little OC w/ some undervolting is in order here!

 

RAM:

The hardware compatibility page says 1GB is the max, but I've read a few posts that say 2GB or even 4GB is preferred.  How does the extra RAM help?  Is it a cache for file transfers?

 

So many choices here...I've narrowed it down to some good 4GB deals.  Prices shown are shipped AR on NewEgg.  Any recommendations?

 

$75 - CORSAIR XMS2 DHX 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 4-4-4-12

$75 - Patriot Extreme Performance 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 4-4-4-12

$80 - Patriot Viper 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 4-4-4-12

$63 - OCZ Reaper HPC Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 4-4-4-15

$63 - OCZ Titanium XTC 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 4-4-4-15

$57 - OCZ Platinum Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1000 CAS5

$71 - OCZ SLI-Ready Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1000 5-4-4-15

$75 - G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1000 5-5-5-15

 

 

Case:

Cooler Master 330 - $45 shipped AR http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119115.  I want the file server to be somewhat small, but this looks to be the best compromise b/n size, build-quality, price, and cooling efficiency.  I'm very open to suggestions, though.  It has 5 internal 3.5" bays, 2 external 3.5" bays (can use these as internal), and 4 external 5.25" bays (can use these internally w/ adapters).  That gives me plenty of space to spread the HDDs out for more efficient cooling, or cram in a lot of drives if I decide to go beyond 6 HDDs in the future (can't really see the need, though). 

 

### = HDD

 

My diagram of the drive bays:

 

----------

###      5.25e

----------

             5.25e

----------

###      5.25e

----------

             5.25e

----------

###      3.5e

--------

             3.5e

--------

###      3.5i

------

             3.5i

------

###      3.5i

------

             3.5i

------

###      3.5i 

------

 

Perfect spacing for 6 HDD's!

 

 

PSU:

For the PSU I'm going to put my rock-solid Zeus 560W in the file server, and put my new-in-box-but-still-sitting-on-my-shelf PC P&C 750W in my gaming rig.

 

I also want to go Gb ethernet.  I'll need to get a new router for that.  My gaming rig already has Gb LAN support, but I'll have to get a card for my wife's rig.  Does Gb LAN help at all?  Or will the HDDs bottleneck me?  I'm assuming Gb LAN will help, but I'd like confirmation from some experienced users.

 

 

Alright...a bit long-winded, but i wanted to give the complete picture.  I'm sure I left some things out, though.  Please offer suggestions, advice, ask questions, etc.  I need all the help i can get!

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Jason   

 

 

My configuration will cost a lil more, but may be more elegant in the long run.

 

 

Case

Centurion 590.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119152&Tpk=centurion%20590

I just love this case and it has room for lots of growth.

It stays really cool. you can use a number of low rpm 120 RPM fans which will keep it quiet and cool.

 

Abit AB9 Pro

This is compatible and it has 9 internal ports, 1 port for each slot on the centurion 590.

In addition 1 external SATA port

Plus 3 of the ports support port multipliers.

With the right hardware, you could grow to 15 drives easily with this configuration.

 

Will my CPU choice make any difference?  Does the cache make a difference?  I'd like to keep this as cheap as possible, but i am also tempted by the extra speed and lower power the new 45nm E5200 brings to the table.  I think a little OC w/ some undervolting is in order here!

 

it will not make that much of a difference unless you plan to run other higher powered services.

I.E. vmware with windows underneath it for torrenting or compressing videos overnight.

 

I have a 2.6ghz duo core 2 and I run it at 1.6ghz and it barely breaks a sweat.

you could get by with a  Intel Celeron 440 Conroe-L 2.0GHz easily. Yet at $48.99, it still makes you wonder which way to go.

Well in the long run you save in power with the Conroe-L @ 35 watts.

 

 

Memory I use OCZ as I've never had issues with it and they honor the rebates.

Go with 2GB-4GB. 

More does help in the long run with caching plus you can install more packages and services.

If you plan to use this in a light duty mode, you can easily get away with 2GB.

But with all the cool things on the horizon and memory being cheap I would consider the 4GB.

 

I use these Trayless holders.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816215046

They aren't the best in the world, but they work good enough.

 

9 Slots in the machine, 9 Sata ports on the motherboard, 9 trayless removables.

Quick -n- easy growth.

As you say, drives will probably get bigger before you run out of slots.

 

Yet once you start using HD or torrenting, you'll see how fast the space gets used.

 

 

 

 

Yes, that 590 case is very nice for the money. It has vented filtered front 5.25" covers down the front. It also comes with a cage with a 120mm fan that holds 4x3.5" drives and fits in 3x5.25" slots and also has rubber mounts for the drives. So, get another one of those cages and you're about as cheap as you can get as well as fairly low noise and filtered too.

 

If you go with WeeboTech's drive trays then you have to add some 120mm fans to suck air through the case and block any other openings so the air comes in the front. Lots of holes on the case for fans.

 

You could also add something like this with it's own fan

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816215048

or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816215083

 

I used something similar. They have their own drive fans as well to keep them cool. I never see over mid 30C temps on the drives.

 

With any of these trays, you lose the use of the filters on the front of the case. I've been thinking about pulling air into the side and back holes through filters and then blowing it out through the cages to keep using filtered air. I can tell you those cages are handy to move drives around when you add/change the drive configuration. I have shifted them around to keep the front order the same as the set-up page order.

 

The AB9 Pro is a fairly proven board. I don't believe it can run without a video card though and it was recommended before to update the bios and only use memory from the officially supported list for that board.

 

Go for lots of memory up to 4G.

 

Look for a good single 12V rail power supply.

 

Peter

 

Those 5in3 Trayless IStars are saweeet! 

My configuration will cost a lil more, but may be more elegant in the long run.

 

 

Case

Centurion 590.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119152&Tpk=centurion%20590

I just love this case and it has room for lots of growth.

It stays really cool. you can use a number of low rpm 120 RPM fans which will keep it quiet and cool.

Yes, that 590 case is very nice for the money. It has vented filtered front 5.25" covers down the front. It also comes with a cage with a 120mm fan that holds 4x3.5" drives and fits in 3x5.25" slots and also has rubber mounts for the drives. So, get another one of those cages and you're about as cheap as you can get as well as fairly low noise and filtered too.

 

If you go with WeeboTech's drive trays then you have to add some 120mm fans to suck air through the case and block any other openings so the air comes in the front. Lots of holes on the case for fans.

 

 

Hmmm...that is a nice case.  It's layed out like my TT Armor where everything is 5.25", and you use adapters for 3.5" devices.  I can definitely see some advantages here.  It does cost almost twice as much as the 330, though.  I may have to keep my eyes open for a good deal.  I got a CoolerMaster 690 last year for a PC i built for my mom.  It was $20 shipped AR!  Black Friday isn't that far off.

 

Right now I think the 590 w/ 2 more of those drive cages (w/ fans) would be perfect.  That would give me room for 12 HDD's.  I can keep the HDD's spread out at first (2 HDD's/cage) and add more HDD's in the gaps if needed.

 

 

Abit AB9 Pro

This is compatible and it has 9 internal ports, 1 port for each slot on the centurion 590.

In addition 1 external SATA port

Plus 3 of the ports support port multipliers.

With the right hardware, you could grow to 15 drives easily with this configuration.

The AB9 Pro is a fairly proven board. I don't believe it can run without a video card though and it was recommended before to update the bios and only use memory from the officially supported list for that board.

 

 

Both you guys seem to love the Abit P965.  I built an overclocked gaming machine for a friend w/ an Asus P5B-Deluxe a couple years ago, and after using my current P35 I don't care too much for P965.  It's voltage hungry, and runs hot.  It also doesn't like all 4 dimm slots to be populated very much.  However, if P or G43/45 doesn't work well w/ unRAID then I guess I don't have much of a choice.  I do like that the Abit has 9 ports, though...can't beat that.  I only need 6 for the near future, though. 

 

Would getting an ASUS P5QL-EM and then getting a PCIe SATA card later if needed be a bad idea?  I'm definitely leaning toward the Abit AB9 Pro atm, but some reason(s) why I shouldn't go the G43/45 route would definitely help me rest easy w/ this decision.  I also worry that in the future (or immediately) I may want to drop a 45nm CPU in there, and I'm not so sure the P965 board will support it.  Another thing...I'll probably want to reduce the vcore below stock and iirc Abit boards do not let you set the vcore below stock VID (correct me if I'm wrong) while Asus let's you go down to 1.1v in the BIOS which translates to ~1.05v real.  Pretty useful for saving a little power.

 

How much are 'port multipliers' and how do they work?  Do they limit bandwidth in any way?

 

 

 

Will my CPU choice make any difference?  Does the cache make a difference?  I'd like to keep this as cheap as possible, but i am also tempted by the extra speed and lower power the new 45nm E5200 brings to the table.  I think a little OC w/ some undervolting is in order here!

 

it will not make that much of a difference unless you plan to run other higher powered services.

I.E. vmware with windows underneath it for torrenting or compressing videos overnight.

 

I have a 2.6ghz duo core 2 and I run it at 1.6ghz and it barely breaks a sweat.

you could get by with a  Intel Celeron 440 Conroe-L 2.0GHz easily. Yet at $48.99, it still makes you wonder which way to go.

Well in the long run you save in power with the Conroe-L @ 35 watts.

 

 

You bring up some interesting points.  Does unRAID support vmware?  I've never used vmware, but I know what it is.  I might have to came back after I get this running for some help getting that working.  It sounds like a winner.  I'd much rather leave the file server on for torrenting instead of leaving my power hungry gaming rig running 24/7.

 

Should I leave the file server on 24/7, or is it practical to have it go to sleep, and then wake on LAN? 

 

About compression...What format do you guys use to compress your videos/DVDs (I want lose-less compression if possible)?  And what do you use to play them back?

 

Is it possible for my gaming rig to use it's over-clocked quad-horsepower to compress the files that reside on the file server, or do I need to keep the files local, and then move the file once they're compressed?

 

 

Memory I use OCZ as I've never had issues with it and they honor the rebates.

Go with 2GB-4GB. 

More does help in the long run with caching plus you can install more packages and services.

If you plan to use this in a light duty mode, you can easily get away with 2GB.

But with all the cool things on the horizon and memory being cheap I would consider the 4GB.

Go for lots of memory up to 4G.

 

 

4GB it is! 

 

$57 - OCZ Platinum Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1000 CAS5

 

Can't really beat that price!  Although, I got my 2nd set of 2x1GB of Ballistix Tracers DDR2-800 (before they switched away from D9 chips) last year for $20 AR!  They do DDR2-1200 speeds! 

 

 

I use these Trayless holders.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816215046

They aren't the best in the world, but they work good enough.

 

9 Slots in the machine, 9 Sata ports on the motherboard, 9 trayless removables.

Quick -n- easy growth.

As you say, drives will probably get bigger before you run out of slots.

If you go with WeeboTech's drive trays then you have to add some 120mm fans to suck air through the case and block any other openings so the air comes in the front. Lots of holes on the case for fans.

 

You could also add something like this with it's own fan

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816215048

or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816215083

 

I used something similar. They have their own drive fans as well to keep them cool. I never see over mid 30C temps on the drives.

 

With any of these trays, you lose the use of the filters on the front of the case. I've been thinking about pulling air into the side and back holes through filters and then blowing it out through the cages to keep using filtered air. I can tell you those cages are handy to move drives around when you add/change the drive configuration. I have shifted them around to keep the front order the same as the set-up page order.

 

 

The idea of easy removal is appealing, but I think I might stick w/ the factory cages (get 2 more).  I like the way they incorporate the fans, and use the case's built-in filtering...the backplanes although very cool looking, are a bit too expensive for my blood.  I pull my gaming rig apart and swap out components quite often, so I don't mind getting in there to move things around.

 

 

Look for a good single 12V rail power supply.

 

Peter

 

 

The Silverstone Zeus ST56ZF 560W I have is considered the Rocky Balboa of PSU's.  Single 38A rail.  Highly recommended...check out some reviews.  It's a beast! 

 

 

Yet once you start using HD or torrenting, you'll see how fast the space gets used.

 

 

Quit reading my mind! 

 

 

 

Thanks guys!  Keep the responses coming!  You guys are immensely helpful!

 

Jason 

FYI, I'm using a ECS A740GM-M motherboard. Cheap but only 6 x SATA. It's been good with no problems for the 2.5 months it's been running but the southbridge does run fairly warm, to the point the heatsink is at the temp I can just hold my finger on it.

 

See here for port multipliers:

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=2318.0

 

But then read here how JonL had some trouble with them:

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=2442.0

Probably if the server was left off until it was fixed it would have been OK but who knows.

 

This post lists some PCIe controllers, try on the second page:

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=1871.0

 

 

Those 5in3 Trayless IStars are saweeet! 

 

Ya, but they are sideways in the pics and have 10 SATA connectors, 2 per drive. Any idea why?

 

Peter

Another thing...I'll probably want to reduce the vcore below stock and iirc Abit boards do not let you set the vcore below stock VID (correct me if I'm wrong) while Asus let's you go down to 1.1v in the BIOS which translates to ~1.05v real.  Pretty useful for saving a little power.

 

This is true, You cannot undervolt the ABIT AB9 Pro, Wish I could.  Then again, I could get a conroe-L and drop 30 watts.

 

Does unRAID support vmware?  I've never used vmware, but I know what it is.  I might have to came back after I get this running for some help getting that working.  It sounds like a winner.  I'd much rather leave the file server on for torrenting instead of leaving my power hungry gaming rig running 24/7.

 

unRAID does not support vmware directly, but there are members of the community setting it up. So you can get third partty help with it.

 

As far as torrenting... I'm working on getting rtorrent working as an installable package.

Actually I have the packages, It's the support environment I'm working on.

My unRAID is on 24x7 and torrenting all the time.

 

Would getting an ASUS P5QL-EM and then getting a PCIe SATA card later if needed be a bad idea?

 

Add the cost of the motherboard + PCIe card, then compare to ABIT AB9 Pro.

Do you really need the 45m CPU? if so go with the newer board, although it may have support issues until the kernel catches up.

 

 

Should I leave the file server on 24/7, or is it practical to have it go to sleep, and then wake on LAN? 

 

 

This depends on your needs, with a low voltage processor and drives spun down, you may not need to power off.

Then again, 1% power vs 10% power is still power saved. Because unRAID boots from flash pretty fast, I doubt you will have an issue with  wake on lan.

 

As far as compressing videos, I've done it both ways. Either works for me.

If vmware is set up on unRAID, then it can all be done there with access remotely like RDP.

 

About compression...What format do you guys use to compress your videos/DVDs (I want lose-less compression if possible)?  And what do you use to play them back?

 

I rip with DVD Shrink, then also make a compressed version with autogk. Yes I keep both around.

One for viewing with menus intact, another for my Archos 704WiFi.

 

As far as cases go, you might consider the Rosewill R6AR6-BK 0.8mm SECC 120mm Fan ATX Mid Tower Computer Case (Holds 13 Drives with the 2 Lian-Li EX-23NB Black Drive Bay Expansion/Cooling Kits) all in a Mid-Tower case. Holds 13 drives for just over $100 and my temps range from the low 30's (Samsung's) to high 30's (Seagate). You will need an additional 120mm fan for the front as well.

 

I used the Armour, which you say you already have.  I put in four 3in2 Trayless units from Kingwin for 12 Seagate 1tb's plus a 500gb Cache and 300gb "linux" disk... and have an AB9 with Q6600 and 8 gigs of DDr2-800 .... oh, and just got a Corsair single rail 750 for it 

 

 

and have an AB9 with Q6600 and 8 gigs of DDr2-800 .... 

What are you doing with a quad core in an unRAID box? 

 

I can't even get my 2.6 to run above 1.6 with the on demand CPU throttling enabled... and my machine is very busy

I was thinking of dropping the 2.6 dual core for a conroe-l considering it never uses the CPU

 

This is true, You cannot undervolt the ABIT AB9 Pro, Wish I could.  Then again, I could get a conroe-L and drop 30 watts.

 

The Intel TDP rating can be deceiving.  That's not actually how much juice your CPU is pulling.  Over/underclock, and voltage adjustments can make a huge difference in power consumption.  This is tempting me to take some chances w/ the newer chipset.

 

 

 

Add the cost of the motherboard + PCIe card, then compare to ABIT AB9 Pro.

Do you really need the 45m CPU? if so go with the newer board, although it may have support issues until the kernel catches up.

 

No, I definitely don't need the 45nm.  But, I'm thinking that an undervolted E5200 w/ a P43/45 chipset would pull less wattage than a stock volted single-core Celeron-L on the P965 chipset.  I don't know for sure, but i have a hunch.  The P43/45 NB chipset is 65nm vs. the P965 which is a 90nm NB. 

 

The PCIe SataII card will come later...or I may end being plenty satisfied w/ 6-7 HDD's. 

 

Edit:  I just found this MSI P43 board http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130185...it's only $83 shipped AR.  I'd have to get a cheap PCI graphics card but this board has 8 on-board Sata ports...not bad.  6 ICH10 ports, and 2 J-micron ports.  This says http://www.digit-life.com/articles3/mainboard/msi-p43-neo-f-i43p-p3.html you can take the vcore down to -0.40v...YES!  It also has Realtek RTL8111C Gb Ethernet...will that work?  I don't see it on the compatibility page.

 

It looks like the Abit AB9 Pro has 2 Gb LAN ports: Gigabit Ethernet Controller, & Realtek RTL 8168.

 

 

 

I rip with DVD Shrink, then also make a compressed version with autogk. Yes I keep both around.

One for viewing with menus intact, another for my Archos 704WiFi.

 

Yeah, i use DVD Shrink already, but I try to use as little compression as possible.  A DVD movie can be anywhere from 3GB to 7GB uncompressed (w/o menus, unneeded sound fields, subtitles, credits, etc).  I was asking about compression b/c recently i watched a full-length 720p 5.1 x.264 movie and it was only 5GB.  If I can get a full length HD movie to fit in 5GB then I'd think a 480p 5.1 DVD could be fit into ~2GB of space using the right kind of loss-less format.  I'll have to look into that.  That could save me quite a bit of space, but my quad-core will be busy for a while!

 

 

 

 

Edit:  It looks like that RAM I want to get has gone down another $10!  $47 shipped AR for 4GB OCZ DDR2-1000 CAS5!

 

Edit2:  I went ahead and got the RAM...too good to pass up at that price.  Also got an ATI XL 8MB PCI Radeon Graphics Card.  It's open-box, but only $8 shipped.  If it works I'm happy.

 

Still thinking about the other pieces, but I'm pretty sold on the CM 590...I'll probably end up ordering this once i decide for sure on the other stuff.  I'm also watching a NIB Velociraptor on eBay for my gaming rig.  I'm still unsure on the mobo & CPU, but i do have the MSI P43 board, and E5200 sitting in my NewEgg cart.

The Intel TDP rating can be deceiving.  That's not actually how much juice your CPU is pulling.  Over/underclock, and voltage adjustments can make a huge difference in power consumption.  This is tempting me to take some chances w/ the newer chipset.

The Intel TDB gives you an idea of how much power you have to disappate.

I use allot of 35 w Low Voltage XEON processors, The power they draw is a measurable difference to other CPUS.

I've found underclocking a CPU does not affect power draw. Undervolting it will.

 

In regards to your presentation with the MSI boards.

The one presented in the article is different then the one presented in your newegg link.

Also the one presented in the newegg link there is only one PCIe 1x port and one PCIex16 port.

 

But, I'm thinking that an undervolted E5200 w/ a P43/45 chipset would pull less wattage than a stock volted single-core Celeron-L on the P965 chipset.  I don't know for sure, but i have a hunch.

 

I would be interested to see this occur. The conroe-L has one core disabled and is rated at 35 watts, whereas the E5200 is rated at 65 watts.  Do you think undervolting would save 30 watts of power?

 

I'm interested to see what becomes of this.

 

There have been times where I was going to purchase a conroe-L just to see how much of a measurable difference there was.

Perhaps I'll eBay off some of my old spare CPU's and try this one day.

I know it's quite measurable with a mobile (35 watt) vs a desktop (65 watt) processor.

 

The Intel TDB gives you an idea of how much power you have to disappate.

I use allot of 35 w Low Voltage XEON processors, The power they draw is a measurable difference to other CPUS.

I've found underclocking a CPU does not affect power draw. Undervolting it will.

 

 

I agree w/ your findings that undervolting makes a measurable difference, and underclocking makes little to no difference.  When overclocking higher voltage increases heat exponentially while frequency affects heat linearly. 

 

 

In regards to your presentation with the MSI boards.

The one presented in the article is different then the one presented in your newegg link.

Also the one presented in the newegg link there is only one PCIe 1x port and one PCIex16 port.

 

You are correct.  I couldn't find anything specifically on the BIOS layout of the MSI P43 Neo3-F, but I figure the Neo-F's BIOS will be near identical as far as vcore adjustments.  Most of Abit's BIOS's are very similar...same w/ Asus, Gigabyte, etc.

 

W/ 8 on-board SataII ports I should be covered for the foreseeable future, and I would think that the PCIe2.0 x16 and PCIe x1 slot would be enough to accommodate 8 more SataII ports.  What is your take on this, though?  Would it be cost prohibitive to go this route?  I'm not sure what all cheap SataII cards are out there that work well.  I figure 1 8-port card in the PCIe2.0 x16 slot would be perfect.

 

 

I would be interested to see this occur. The conroe-L has one core disabled and is rated at 35 watts, whereas the E5200 is rated at 65 watts.  Do you think undervolting would save 30 watts of power?

 

I'm interested to see what becomes of this.

 

There have been times where I was going to purchase a conroe-L just to see how much of a measurable difference there was.

Perhaps I'll eBay off some of my old spare CPU's and try this one day.

I know it's quite measurable with a mobile (35 watt) vs a desktop (65 watt) processor.

 

 

The newer wolfdales have more advanced C1E states, and are more efficient.  The P43/45 chipset is more efficient than the P965 chipset.  I think the combo of more efficient chipset and more efficient CPU running at ~1.0v (maybe even 0.9v) will have some advantages.  Again, I'm not certain the power draw will be less, but it might be a neat experiment none-the-less.  I can always sell off the E5200 and get a Conroe-L later if it doesn't work out or perhaps a new 45nm single-core will come out.  I need to get one of those Kill-O-Watt meters so I can make a meaningful conclusion, though.

 

I've been through about 5 CPU's this year on my gaming rig.  I started out w/ an X3210 G0 overclocked to 3.6GHz.  I loved that chip, but it required a lot of voltage on the NB, and CPU to run that speed stable, and put off a lot of heat.  Then I had an opportunity to get a low VID Q6600 G0.  Turns out it was a heat monster, and turned my room into an oven.  Next up was a cherry-picked Q6600 G0 that ran stable at 3.8GHz, but I kept it at 3.6GHz where it was stable at low voltage and didn't put out nearly as much heat as the last 2.  It was still quite warm and Summer was heating up, so I decided to get an E3110 45nm dual-core and run it at 4GHz for the summer time, and use the quad later when it cooled off outside.  Well that didn't last very long as I got the opportunity to get an Q9550 E0...the latest stepping.  I had to sell both my E3110 and Q6600 to pay for it and I'm glad I did.  It's the best of both worlds IMO.  It requires only 1.2v to run stable at 3.9ghz, and actually runs cooler than the E3110 did at 4GHz. 

W/ 8 on-board SataII ports I should be covered for the foreseeable future, and I would think that the PCIe2.0 x16 and PCIe x1 slot would be enough to accommodate 8 more SataII ports.  What is your take on this, though?  Would it be cost prohibitive to go this route?  I'm not sure what all cheap SataII cards are out there that work well.  I figure 1 8-port card in the PCIe2.0 x16 slot would be perfect.

 

I've found 4 port SATA at a cost effective upgrade price will fit in the X16 port. ~$100 or so.

I've found 2 Port SATA at a cost effective uipgrade price will fit in the X1 Slot.  ~$20-$50.

 

So for about 150 or so you could add 6 more ports.

 

To add 8 ports on a single PCIe might cost up to $300. (at least when I looked at it).

 

Unless you go with PCI cards. Which in any case might suffice for your needs.

In that case there is a nice 8 port PCI super micro card that many people use.

 

The newer wolfdales ....

I can always sell off the E5200 and get a Conroe-L later if it doesn't work out ....

but it might be a neat experiment none-the-less.....

I need to get one of those Kill-O-Watt meters so I can make a meaningful conclusion, though.

 

I would be interested in your findings.

If I did not have so many machines, I would try this myself.

 

 

I've been through about 5 CPU's this year on my gaming rig.....

 

Cool, I love reading about peoples experiments. I'm not a gamer, but I do all sorts of coding and virutalization.

I don't have nearly the speed that you are playing with, but I do run about 8 different OS's at the same time.

Overclocking scares me with what I do, I cannot afford to have have a virtual environment get corrupted in any manner.

With overclocking, if a game dies, you can just reboot, with me, I have to recover by reloading and restarting all the vms.

Stability has always been my main focus. One of my workstations was up for over 500 days without a reboot before I upgraded it.

Even then, I only upgraded it because a mirrored hard drive failed and I was too lazy to take apart the case.

 

That's why I was suggesting you consider the removables (or trayless if you can afford it).

The way hard drives jump in sizes these days, and wiith the way you can upgrade a hard drive in place on unRAID, one day you will be happy you did.

 

 

 

Cool, I love reading about peoples experiments. I'm not a gamer, but I do all sorts of coding and virutalization.

I don't have nearly the speed that you are playing with, but I do run about 8 different OS's at the same time.

Overclocking scares me with what I do, I cannot afford to have have a virtual environment get corrupted in any manner.

With overclocking, if a game dies, you can just reboot, with me, I have to recover by reloading and restarting all the vms.

Stability has always been my main focus. One of my workstations was up for over 500 days without a reboot before I upgraded it.

Even then, I only upgraded it because a mirrored hard drive failed and I was too lazy to take apart the case.

 

That's why I was suggesting you consider the removables (or trayless if you can afford it).

The way hard drives jump in sizes these days, and wiith the way you can upgrade a hard drive in place on unRAID, one day you will be happy you did.

 

 

 

I do strenuous stress testing for stability, but even then you can still have a crash every now and then when on the bleeding edge.  After some real-world testing the high FSB speed was giving me issues, but I dropped it down to 460, and my CPU/FSB is stable now.  I just recently dropped the speed on my graphics card a tad b/c of a few lock-ups in my current favorite racing game; GRID.  I've volt-modded my graphics card and have it running way over spec...love it!  Haven't had any issues since these adjustments, but even if you run stock the graphics drivers can sometimes mess you up.

 

I do like the idea of the easily removable trays (or trayless), and I may get there eventually.  For now I'm just going to use the 4-3 that comes w/ the case, and I have some left over 3-3 modules from some Antec 900 builds I did for others.  I'll have room for 10 HDD's w/o any additional costs for the case....except fans.

 

I ordered 4 low speed 120mm Yate loons to throw in the case to make sure air was moving across all the HDD's, and I figure w/ 3 intake in front, and 1 exhaust in the rear (along w/ the PSU fan) I'll have a bit of positive pressure in the case which will hopefully keep the air flow moving in through the filter, and out all the other holes...keeping dust down to a minimum.

The MSI P43 Neo-3f has Realtek RTL8111C Gb Ethernet...will that work?  I don't see it on the compatibility page.

 

It looks like the Abit AB9 Pro has 2 Gb LAN ports: Gigabit Ethernet Controller, & Realtek RTL 8168.

 

 

Any comment on this?  This is holding me back from getting this board.

 

 

 

Also, is there any plan to bring print server functionality to unRAID?

The MSI P43 Neo-3f has Realtek RTL8111C Gb Ethernet...will that work?  I don't see it on the compatibility page.

Any comment on this?  This is holding me back from getting this board.

 

I don't know about this one. Perhaps someone else will answer.

 

 

Also, is there any plan to bring print server functionality to unRAID?

 

I don't know here either (helpful ain't I?).

Actually I don't remember seeing a feature request for it, nor do I remember it on the laundry list.

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=266.msg12800#msg12800

 

I'm sure it's possible to add it in yourself.

 

 

 

 

Some general comments on the Abit AB9 Pro in case you're still considering it. The RAM you chose might not work. The Abit AB9 Pro seems to like RAM running at 1.8V better. It also does not support 45nm processors in the current BIOS. Probably never will.

 

The MSI P43 looks nice, but are, as of yet, untested. I was considering buying the same board and pairing with a C2D E5200 but I've held off due to unknown compatibility with unRAID.

Hmmm....looks like I may have to be a guinea pig.

 

Worst case, I can use WHS until unRAID support catches up, or sell off the hardware and try again.

 

 

 

Edit:  What program do you guys recommend I use to back up my files across the network to my wife's PC?  In the past I've just drag n dropped, but it always hangs up on certain files.  I end up having to compare the properties of each folder to ensure everything got moved across.  Is there a better solution...preferably free?

Alright, time for an update!

 

I've got it all hooked up. First I installed XP to find out the speed I wanted to run. Unfortunately, on this mobo the -0.4v vcore setting was a no show. The BIOS even says -400mV to +0.7xxV on the side bar, but it will not let me select anything below VID which is 1.125. Even on auto voltage and stock speed, when speedstep kicks in I can't get the voltage to drop. Under load it's at 1.112v.

 

*See comments below in post #23

 

 

Since the voltage doesn't drop w/ C1E I've decided to turn speedstep off. I can't run speedstep anyway on this mobo at the FSB/multi combination I want to run. Check it out!

 

 

333x9=3GHz at the lowest voltage settings possible, and completely stable! I've got all voltages in the BIOS on min (not auto), and even have the RAM running at 1.8v 800 5-5-5-18. Another small issue w/ this mobo...I can't slow the CPU fan down at all. It's the loudest fan in this system, but the whole system is still much quieter than my main gaming rig. At least its running nice and cool. Here's some pics of the rig.

 

 

 

Everything came up good on the unRAID side. Only thing I'm a bit worried about...I put the parity drive in SATA port 1 instead of 0. And have the other 2 HDDs in slots 2 & 3. I'll add the 4th drive after I confirm everything is still working well in a few days and I buy the unRAID software. Will I have issues if I add another drive in slot 0 later? I didn't read that part of the manual until i already had everything up and running.

 

Anyway, I'm currently transferring 300GB of data to the server. It seems to be going smoothly. I'll add a cache driver later as well once I get all my data moved around (and I read up on how to do it).

>> , but it will not let me select anything below VID which is 1.125.  Even on auto voltage and stock speed, when speedstep kicks in I can't get the voltage to drop.  Under load it's at 1.112v.

 

This was a con that I saw with the AB9 board also... Do other boards support dropping vcore for intel chips?

I've been eyeing up a ASUS p5q because it has a steelvine processor for two ports.

This would support hardware mirroring and would be supported by the OS.

Other then that the AB9 is serving me very well.

 

Case looks good, nice and neat. (neater then mine, but then again, I'm always in mine).

Pics look great, I'm going to post some of my setup in a day or so. I just added drive 8 & 9 so now I have it all complete with the removables.

 

>>I can't slow the CPU fan down at all.  It's the loudest fan in this system, but the whole system is still much quieter than my main gaming rig.  At least its running nice and cool.  He

 

Umm... Maybe becuz...

>>> 333x9=3GHz at the lowest voltage settings possible, and completely stable! 

 

I run a 2.6 at stock settings and I can't hear my CPU fan.

I also have two 120MM fans at top. I recommend you do the same,

Newegg has a 4 pack of the coolermaster fans for $13.00.

I think they perform a lil better then the scythe SFF21D (which is supposed to be good).

 

 

I never realized how hot the drives get (at least the 1TB's)

My seagate burned me today while operating on my machine.

I had the cover off.. Once I put the cover on all the drive temps dropped down to 36-40ish.

So my whole passive front end, active back end is working really well.

 

>> Will I have issues if I add another drive in slot 0 later?  I didn't read that part of the manual until i already had everything up and running.

None at all.

In fact if you wanted you could stop the array. move the parity drive to slot 0, then when the array comes up and complains, re-assign it in devices.

Chances are the array will come online with out a hitch.

 

 

 

>> , but it will not let me select anything below VID which is 1.125. Even on auto voltage and stock speed, when speedstep kicks in I can't get the voltage to drop. Under load it's at 1.112v.

 

This was a con that I saw with the AB9 board also... Do other boards support dropping vcore for intel chips?

I've been eyeing up a ASUS p5q because it has a steelvine processor for two ports.

This would support hardware mirroring and would be supported by the OS.

Other then that the AB9 is serving me very well.

 

 

Asus boards let you select a min voltage of 1.1v which works out to about 1.05v actual. I know Abit does it by VID, and it appears MSI does as well. Iirc Gigabyte might allow lower...not sure, though. I know I've seen under 1V in screenshots before. It is actually possible to pad-mod the CPU to give it a lower VID, but I'm not sure if I'll take it that far.

 

 

Case looks good, nice and neat. (neater then mine, but then again, I'm always in mine).

Pics look great, I'm going to post some of my setup in a day or so. I just added drive 8 & 9 so now I have it all complete with the removables.

 

 

Thanks! I like to keep it tidy for good airflow.

 

 

>>I can't slow the CPU fan down at all. It's the loudest fan in this system, but the whole system is still much quieter than my main gaming rig. At least its running nice and cool. He

 

Umm... Maybe becuz...

>>> 333x9=3GHz at the lowest voltage settings possible, and completely stable!

 

I run a 2.6 at stock settings and I can't hear my CPU fan.

I also have two 120MM fans at top. I recommend you do the same,

Newegg has a 4 pack of the coolermaster fans for $13.00.

I think they perform a lil better then the scythe SFF21D (which is supposed to be good).

 

 

I never realized how hot the drives get (at least the 1TB's)

My seagate burned me today while operating on my machine.

I had the cover off.. Once I put the cover on all the drive temps dropped down to 36-40ish.

So my whole passive front end, active back end is working really well.

 

My CPU temps are actually very good for running on this tiny HS. Since I'm running min vcore it's not really hotter than the stock 2.5GHz. And now I also have much better bandwidth w/ the 333FSB...the P43 NB has no problem pulling this off w/o getting any warmer than the stock 200FSB.

 

There are CPU fan controls in the BIOS. They just have no effect. I've set it to various percentages in manual mode, but the RPMs stay constant. You can even set it to run a certain % below a certain temp threshold, and it will kick into full speed once the threshold is reached, but it doesn't do anything for some reason. I can adjust the other 2 system fan speeds just fine. The RPM reading confirms this. Maybe I need an updated BIOS or something.

 

I have 3 intake fans up front (low-speed Yate Loons), 1 exhaust in back (another Yate Loon), and then 1 more exhaust in top (Coolermaster...came w/ case). I took out the other UV one to keep this rig more discreet. That's 3 fans on intake, and 2.75 fans on exhaust (I'm counting the PSU fan as 0.75). This way I have slight positive pressure, and all the intake should get pulled thru the filters up front, and there's plenty of extra holes for the extra pressure to escape. It stays plenty cool.  

 

 

 

I'm getting these temps while I'm copying over ~300GB. I've got about 2hrs left. It's 73*F in this room right now according to the thermostat.

 

 

 

>> Will I have issues if I add another drive in slot 0 later? I didn't read that part of the manual until i already had everything up and running.

None at all.

In fact if you wanted you could stop the array. move the parity drive to slot 0, then when the array comes up and complains, re-assign it in devices.

Chances are the array will come online with out a hitch.

 

Should I do this, or will it matter if I just add another storage drive later to slot0?

 

 

 

 

 

Should I do this, or will it matter if I just add another storage drive later to slot0?

 

It does not matter either way. If you like things to be arranged in a specific order you can re-adjust and move the parity drive.

If you choose not to move it, a new drive put in slot 0 will not be a problem.

Unfortunately, on this mobo the -0.4v vcore setting was a no show.  The BIOS even says -400mV to +0.7xxV on the side bar, but it will not let me select anything below VID which is 1.125.  Even on auto voltage and stock speed, when speedstep kicks in I can't get the voltage to drop.  Under load it's at 1.112v.  Since the voltage doesn't drop w/ C1E I've decided to turn speedstep off.  I can't run speedstep anyway on this mobo at the FSB/multi combination I want to run.  Check it out!

 

 

Well i figured out how to set vcore below VID.  Just keep hitting (-) after it gets down to Auto.  I didn't think to try that. 

 

Anyway, more testing to do now as I figure out how low I can go on the volts.

Update!

 

 

I got a decent HS on Sat, so I had to push just a little bit.  I wasn't trying to find max stable, but I did boot up to this:

 

 

I couldn't get 4.3GHz to boot.  I went up to 1.5v, and stopped.  I didn't try playing w/ other settings much, though, except I did try 1.25v vtt.

 

 

 

On to what this chip can do w/ some low voltage.  I wanted to keep the 333FSB, so I just dropped the multi to 6, and here's what we have:

 

 

 

VERY NICE!!!  Super cool too!  Those temps have been calibrated following the RealTemp documentation.  I had to use -10.0 to get it there, but the temps seem feasible given the super low voltage.  4-5*C above ambient while at ultra-idle at 0.856v.

 

I can't run it any faster at this voltage, but I really don't need any more speed for a file server.  This 45nm CPU is doing a fine job of keeping the power bill down for 24/7 usage.