My iStarUSA server bits

This is a separate topic I created from a conversation that started in this thread - http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=27316.msg240080#msg240080

...I liked that case right away when Tom announced it back then...still in love with it...rackmount case...10x3.5 and 4x2.5 disks....a lot of options in there, not only for unRAID alone

 

I use those exact iStarUSA drive cages in my server. I removed the 70mm fans and added some 70-80mm shrouds and 80mm fans because I wasn't sure if the 70s could do the job. I'm interested to see if Tom found them to be adequate. I just love the way they look, and the color options.

 

The Newegg site shows 80mm fans already for the 4-in-3 trayless units;  with 70mm fans on the 3-in-2 units ... and doesn't have any 5-in-3 units that are trayless.    Which ones are you using?

... and what kind of drive temps do you see with these?

The case I'm using is an 8 bay 4U iStarUSA case:

So I used the 3-in-2 models:

... to make a 12 drive trayless system. Modding the 70mm to 80mm pwm fans was simple enough with the shroud. Taped up the air gaps, and voila. I use a custom fan speed script to keep my drives between 32C and 36C. My drives are 5400 rpm, and during a parity check the fans run between 70% - 80% to keep the drives around 33C-34C. I could keep them cooler, but the infamous Google drive failure experiment showed me there is such a thing as keeping your drives too cold.

I had assumed that was the case (the 3-in-2's), based on the details at Newegg.  But I didn't see how you got 10 drives (like the new Limetech server) ... which I assumed (incorrectly) was what you had [based on "... I use those exact iStarUSA drive cages in my server ..."].

Temps are good -- I'm sure bumping the fan size up, coupled with thermostatic control of the fan speeds, is what allows that.    I've tried several different 5-in-3 cages, and while they generally work fairly well, what I've been using in more recent builds is the simple CoolerMaster 4-in-3 cages (not hot swap) that have a 120mm fan in front => this keeps drive ~ 4-5 degrees C cooler than any hot-swap I've tried, with very low (i.e. silent) fan speeds.  A side benefit is they're a lot cheaper 

...this is not the same base model for the rackmount, I think.

Edit: yes, limetech's is a 3U (E306...) while Aiden's is a 4U

Aiden's case got 12 drives by using 4x 3-in-2 cages....but there is no room in the mid-section to hold the cage for the 4x 2.5 disks.

For a pure UnRAID box I think Aiden's is a nicer choice.  But for an ESXi box, the 4 2.5" bays would be nice for SSDs (or laptop drives) to hold the datastore, with the 3.5" bays for UnRAID disks.

For a pure UnRAID box I think Aiden's is a nicer choice.  But for an ESXi box, the 4 2.5" bays would be nice for SSDs (or laptop drives) to hold the datastore, with the 3.5" bays for UnRAID disks.

...almost what I was thinking...only that I would put the datastore on a ZFS-Array and share it via NFS back to ESXi (internal vswitch, almost as fast the CPU bandwidth)...instant snaps at no cost plus redundancy.

This is not for VMDKs that hold the OS...easy replacable...this is for VMDKs holding data.

For a pure UnRAID box I think Aiden's is a nicer choice.  But for an ESXi box, the 4 2.5" bays would be nice for SSDs (or laptop drives) to hold the datastore, with the 3.5" bays for UnRAID disks.

 

...almost what I was thinking...only that I would put the datastore on a ZFS-Array and share it via NFS back to ESXi (internal vswitch, almost as fast the CPU bandwidth)...instant snaps at no cost plus redundancy.

This is not for VMDKs that hold the OS...easy replacable...this is for VMDKs holding data.

I use some expansion slot 2.5" drive bays to add my cache and other drives - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817998052.

And I apologize for the confusion about the "exact same" cages. I should have specified "same series".

I intend to rebuild this system to 2 unRAID arrays of 5 data + 1 parity per side, once Tom has added that feature to the OS. I don't like having too many disks on single parity, especially at the densities we're pushing.

Temps are good -- I'm sure bumping the fan size up, coupled with thermostatic control of the fan speeds, is what allows that.    I've tried several different 5-in-3 cages, and while they generally work fairly well, what I've been using in more recent builds is the simple CoolerMaster 4-in-3 cages (not hot swap) that have a 120mm fan in front => this keeps drive ~ 4-5 degrees C cooler than any hot-swap I've tried, with very low (i.e. silent) fan speeds.  A side benefit is they're a lot cheaper 

I can't argue with the lower cost. There's just no getting around the extra hardware involved in a trayless enclosure. I knew going into it that I would need to mod the fans to get the temps I wanted. A 120 would have been awesome, but there isn't enough width available on these units to go beyond 80mm. I just wanted to build something different that afforded the luxury of never having to open the box unless I have to pull the thumbdrive. And it looks sexy.

 

I intend to rebuild this system to 2 unRAID arrays of 5 data + 1 parity per side, once Tom has added that feature to the OS. I don't like having too many disks on single parity, especially at the densities we're pushing.

 

Not clear from your config whether you're running bare metal or virtualized/ESXi (since you have a Xeon/SuperMicro it could be either).    If virtualized, you could, of course, already do what you indicated (2 arrays with 5+parity) by simply buying a Plus 2-pack, which actually costs less than a single Pro license 

For a pure UnRAID box I think Aiden's is a nicer choice.  But for an ESXi box, the 4 2.5" bays would be nice for SSDs (or laptop drives) to hold the datastore, with the 3.5" bays for UnRAID disks.

I think Tom's thoughts were people would use the 2.5 inch bays for a Btrfs cache pool once he has implemented that feature.

I actually use 7200RPM laptop drives in my actual array. They hold backup images of my computers and my music library and are excluded from all other shares. My cache drive is also a 7200RPM laptop drive.

......

And it looks sexy.

I have to agree that the iStarUSA drives cages are by far the best looking of the 4 popular brands of drive cages.

I actually just ordered a single bay unit from Monoprice, that are obviously just rebranded iStarUSA units, to use as in an old small form factor PC that only has one 5.25 inch bay as a dedicated preclearing station. The trayless action will make it really nice. http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=113&cp_id=11307&cs_id=1130701&p_id=10059&seq=1&format=1

Monoprice also sells the rebranded 3 in 2 and 4 in 3 cages.

EDIT: I still the think Apple XServe (R.I.P.) had the coolest drive trays though. I can't believe someone hasn't copied that release mechanism yet.

Not clear from your config whether you're running bare metal or virtualized/ESXi (since you have a Xeon/SuperMicro it could be either).    If virtualized, you could, of course, already do what you indicated (2 arrays with 5+parity) by simply buying a Plus 2-pack, which actually costs less than a single Pro license 

Yes, I could (it's bare metal right now). It is something I've thought about for a while now, and I designed the system around that goal after moving past the Atom system I started with in 2010. I am, however, a victim of my own success. Apparently my wife and children can no longer get through the day without the server. So I've been piecing a Microserver together to work as a stand in while I rebuild the primary server with ESXi. I own a two pack license for Pro already, so the licensing isn't a concern to me. I just need to bite the bullet and get a pair of SSDs for the datastore. Ford's comments about building them with ZFS is an interesting idea.

I think Tom's thoughts were people would use the 2.5 inch bays for a Btrfs cache pool once he has implemented that feature.

 

I actually use 7200RPM laptop drives in my actual array. They hold backup images of my computers and my music library and are excluded from all other shares. My cache drive is also a 7200RPM laptop drive.

I agree. Based on the design of that case, it looks like he expects multiple drives for caching. I use a laptop hard drive as one of the data disks in my array, simply because it was going unused. Those expansion slot drive enclosures are pretty sweet.

I'm also surprised he got iStar to make that as a 3U case. If they would make a 3U case that had 11 5.25" bays, it would be perfect. 11 5.25" bays are 17 7/8" in height, turned sideways that gives over an inch in a 19" rack. Put a slim power/reset button on one side. You could put 2 5-in-3 enclosures, 2 3-in-2 enclosures and a single 6-in-1 2.5" enclosure in the middle. That would make a 16 drive case with 6 2.5" drives for a mirrored datastore and 2 mirrored BTRFS cache arrays for each unRAID array (assuming 2 8 drive arrays, 7 data + 1 parity). I would buy that in a heartbeat. The best I could find was that 8 bay 4U case.

I have to agree that the iStarUSA drives cages are by far the best looking of the 4 popular brands of drive cages.

 

I actually just ordered a single bay unit from Monoprice, that are obviously just rebranded iStarUSA units, to use as in an old small form factor PC that only has one 5.25 inch bay as a dedicated preclearing station. The trayless action will make it really nice. http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=113&cp_id=11307&cs_id=1130701&p_id=10059&seq=1&format=1

 

Monoprice also sells the rebranded 3 in 2 and 4 in 3 cages.

Awesome. I did not realize Monoprice had those enclosures. Thanks for the link!

EDIT: I still the think Apple XServe (R.I.P.) had the coolest drive trays though. I can't believe someone hasn't copied that release mechanism yet.

I agree. Even though Apple had an impossible task trying to break into the server market, no one can begrudge the fact they know how to make sexy look sexier.  I was always partial to the XServe arrays...

I have to agree that the iStarUSA drives cages are by far the best looking of the 4 popular brands of drive cages.

 

I actually just ordered a single bay unit from Monoprice, that are obviously just rebranded iStarUSA units, to use as in an old small form factor PC that only has one 5.25 inch bay as a dedicated preclearing station. The trayless action will make it really nice. http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=113&cp_id=11307&cs_id=1130701&p_id=10059&seq=1&format=1

 

Monoprice also sells the rebranded 3 in 2 and 4 in 3 cages.

 

Awesome. I did not realize Monoprice had those enclosures. Thanks for the link!

 

EDIT: I still the think Apple XServe (R.I.P.) had the coolest drive trays though. I can't believe someone hasn't copied that release mechanism yet.

 

I agree. Even though Apple had an impossible task trying to break into the server market, no one can begrudge the fact they know how to make sexy look sexier.  I was always partial to the XServe arrays...

Before I bought my Norco case I actually thought about trying to mod an XServe array to function as a DAS but the price for the parts and an XServe array in good shape with all the drive trays included would have ended up being $1000+. Would have been sweet though. I did end up buying an XServe with dual G5s to play around with though. I'm gonna throw an old 250GB drive in there and install OS X Leopard Server.

I use some expansion slot 2.5" drive bays to add my cache and other drives - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817998052.

[...]

And I apologize for the confusion about the "exact same" cages. I should have specified "same series".

Oh, these also look like an intelligent idea to use that space in your case.

How's the drive connected inside?

..no need to apologize...interesting thread...still looking fora way to source these in Europe/Germany

 

I use some expansion slot 2.5" drive bays to add my cache and other drives - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817998052.

 

Now THAT is a cool gadget !! 

I recently built 2 ESXi servers for a customer that had those 2.5in PCI drive holders.  I ended up putting an SSD in each one and then doing a Hardware RAID1 on those drives as the datastore in the ESXi box.

I recently built 2 ESXi servers for a customer that had those 2.5in PCI drive holders.  I ended up putting an SSD in each one and then doing a Hardware RAID1 on those drives as the datastore in the ESXi box.

I've done the same thing. 

They hook up with a regular sata cable. They're a lil sticky when trying to get the drives in or out, however they are very effective.

I guess I should have made a build thread like others have done. But I put this server together before Raj started his UCD threads, and haven't taken it apart to do proper documentation. Here is a pic of the inside. You can see the spacing between the 80mm fans is as good as it gets for the 3-in-2 models. Also, it shows there is room for 4 of the PCI drive enclosures and still add 2 SATA controllers. The red/blue SATA cables are doubled over and are attached to the motherboard. If I had the desire to clean things up, I would buy shorter cables. If I add a second controller, I will have to do better cable management. Also note that I still can add another exhaust fan, but haven't had a need thus far.

Pic of the front.

Another. Yes, technically those drive enclosures are "upside down". But the drives spin exactly the same, and it was necessary to get the modded fans above the motherboard for a proper fit. It also means the exhaust from the drive cages goes straight along the top to the vents in the back of the case.

All closed up and locked.

I recently built 2 ESXi servers for a customer that had those 2.5in PCI drive holders.  I ended up putting an SSD in each one and then doing a Hardware RAID1 on those drives as the datastore in the ESXi box.

 

I've done the same thing. 

They hook up with a regular sata cable. They're a lil sticky when trying to get the drives in or out, however they are very effective.

Yes, they aren't very smooth mechanically, and take a certain finesse when getting the door to close and latch, but they are HIGHLY useful in large cases like mine that waste expansion slots.

I recently built 2 ESXi servers for a customer that had those 2.5in PCI drive holders.  I ended up putting an SSD in each one and then doing a Hardware RAID1 on those drives as the datastore in the ESXi box.

 

I've done the same thing. 

They hook up with a regular sata cable. They're a lil sticky when trying to get the drives in or out, however they are very effective.

 

Yes, they aren't very smooth mechanically, and take a certain finesse when getting the door to close and latch, but they are HIGHLY useful in large cases like mine that waste expansion slots.

I do agree. I have a number of them.  I scooped a bunch up when it became impossible to source the Slot rafters. These are nicer. Just takes a bit of careful effort with some ssd drives.

I recently built 2 ESXi servers for a customer that had those 2.5in PCI drive holders.  I ended up putting an SSD in each one and then doing a Hardware RAID1 on those drives as the datastore in the ESXi box.

 

I've done the same thing. 

They hook up with a regular sata cable. They're a lil sticky when trying to get the drives in or out, however they are very effective.

 

Yes, they aren't very smooth mechanically, and take a certain finesse when getting the door to close and latch, but they are HIGHLY useful in large cases like mine that waste expansion slots.

 

 

I do agree. I have a number of them.  I scooped a bunch up when it became impossible to source the Slot rafters. These are nicer. Just takes a bit of careful effort with some ssd drives.

They are nice. But I can't bring myself to pay $26 bucks for something that holds one disk unless I was swapping disks in and out all the time like those are good for.

I just found these though: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=0VE-000W-00013

Now that is more reasonable and it holds two disks. I found someone selling them on eBay for $6.39 shipped and ordered two of them. For about $13 bucks you can hold four 2.5 inch disks. It would cost you around $100 to hold that many with those slot cages and would take up 4 PCI slots vs. 2 with the others. I also like the foam padding on the inside of these in case you're using spinners. The only downside I can see is the slot bracket isn't vented to allow airflow to pass over the disks and out of the case. But that can be fixed with a drill.

I just found these though: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=0VE-000W-00013

Nice find.  A good way to hold SSDs when you don't have any available drive bays.   

My favorite 2.5" drive holder is this nifty dual hot-swap rack ... but it requires a 5.25" bay:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817986003

I just found these though: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=0VE-000W-00013

 

Nice find.  A good way to hold SSDs when you don't have any available drive bays.   

 

My favorite 2.5" drive holder is this nifty dual hot-swap rack ... but it requires a 5.25" bay:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817986003

I just ordered one of these (www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817990011) to put in a small form factor PC for a basic unraid server for my parents. The case has 1 5.25 inch bay that I'll put this in with two 320GB laptop drives and it already had a 320GB 3.5 inch disk in it. Going to load the SSH plugin and the Plex plugin and so I'll be able to send movies to it via SFTP for them to watch that they can stream them to their Apple TV from their iPads. Obviously it's not meant to hold a huge library but I can delete old stuff as it gets full.