How do you backup your unRaid?

[RussellinSacto]

Maybe this is putting the cart before the horse, as I don't have an unRaid system setup yet... 

 

But how do you backup your unRaid system?

 

I currently have two 2TB Buffalo Technology Raid systems and am trying to use elephantdrive.com for backup, but it takes an eternity.  Now I'm looking at 10-12TBs more in unRaid.

 

How are you accommodating off site backup when you have such a mass of storage onsite?

 

Thanks,

 

Russell

[erikatcuse]

I don't...that's why I have Unraid

 

I guess part of it is because all of our pictures are archived on DVD's

 

The proverbial question is what are the chances of 2 drives failing at once (which I believe has been discussed in earlier posts)?

 

Unless your worried about catastrophic damage or loss due to theft.

 

 

[Joe L.]

It has been said many times before, but it does not hurt to say it once more...

 

A RAID array of any kind is not a replacement for a safe and secure backup of critical files.  To be really safe, the backup should be off-site.

 

All you need is one flood/fire/lightning strike/power surge to take your server and make it into a pile of scrap.  The disks might survive, bit I would not risk my business on it alone.

 

All that said, as we now can easily have multi-terrabyte servers, it is not easy to keep an off-site backup in sync.  The best I can do is make backups on DVD media of the files and photos that are not replaceable and store the DVDs in my bank safe-deposit box.    A very easy solution these days is to get a 1TB portable drive, and every once in a while back up the critical files to it, then take it elsewhere.... a family member's house, to work, just somewhere not physically adjacent to the unRAID server.

 

The Movies and music is all from DVDs and CDs I own and have in my library... although it is a lengthy process, I can load them back on the server if I need to.

 

Joe L.

[WeeboTech]

The proverbial question is what are the chances of 2 drives failing at once (which I believe has been discussed in earlier posts)?

 

There is always the thought that if one drive fails, the chances of another failure are very high.

 

To this I'll say.. There are a few conditions that the chances of failure are high.

 

1.  If you choose to use drives that would normally be retired. I.E. old and small drives that have no use anywhere else and have been spinning quite some time.

 

2. If you buy a "lot" of the same model drives all at one time. I.E. if you purchase 10 of the same model at the same time, the chances of failure within those models seems higher..

 

3. Multiple drive purchases of newly released models. To this I'll say 6 months or so..

 

This has been my experience with many webservers when we put them online.

I tried to get my partner to buy drives over the course of time keeping various ages of stock around to help alleviate point 2.

Point 3,  Our experience has been multiple drives of newly release models spinning 24x7 tend to show patterns of failure.

 

 

 

how do you backup your unRaid system?

 

 

I don't...that's why I have Unraid

 

I have two unRAID's.

 

How are you accommodating off site backup when you have such a mass of storage onsite?

 

I don't do offsite backups, but I do unRAID to unRAID backups.

 

I have one large one and one tiny low powered one

I rsync disk1 to disk1, disk2 to disk2, the others I do not back up the same way right now, but could if I needed to.

if I were to go with offsite, I would work with a family member and put an unRAID system there and setup some form of tunnel to allow rsync over ssh through.

 

 

 

 

[vca]

Maybe this is putting the cart before the horse, as I don't have an unRaid system setup yet... 

 

But how do you backup your unRaid system?

 

Most of my unraid system (which has 5 data drives from the 300G  IDE era and a 1TB SATA parity drive) contains media files, primarily recorded TV that has been edited of commercials. I backup this to an external (USB interfaced) 1.5TB drive. The initial backup took about 20 hours to run, the incrementals take far less time (say about a half hour) and get done about once a week. I actually have a second copy of the backup stored off site in case of fire, theft or flood... The backup software I run is arcvback (see http://arcvback.com/arcvback.html ) which can do an infinitely long series of incrementals, so you only have to do the "big hit" of backing up everything on rare occasions, say like once every 6 months or so.

 

[RussellinSacto]

 

Hey guys,

 

Thanks for all the ideas.  I'm a professional photographer - my images are irreplaceable, and massive - a 4-5 GB image would be a small one.  You can see what I'm up to on my (outdated) website:  www.russellschutte.com

 

I appreciate that unRaid is not a backup platform...  I'm considering adding an unRaid system next to my Buffulo RAID units (which I've had no issue with in the few years I've had them, BTW).  Your feedback has been great!

 

I know that offsite is a terrible problem with massive storage - but my house burned down to the ground when I was a kid, so I sure know it can happen.  I also can't spend hours a week backing everything up and trucking it offsite for the pretty uncommon site failure.

 

1.  Has anyone tried bolting an UnRAID computer in their trunk, doing an initial backup over wire, and incremental backups over wireless?  Set it up so the system auto joins the wireless network and the site based computer automatically connects to it and sends backup data to it.  (Anytime the car is gone, you've got offsite backup - and incase of fire, you've got separate recovery options.) 

 

2.  The boys at Sentry safes have come up with a USB fireproof datasafe.  Unfortunately, the guys aren't geeks and made a USB device ( http://www.sentrysafe.com/products/productDetail.aspx?s=278 ).  If they'd have simply made a large Network pass-through safe, maybe we'd have something useful.  I wonder how hard/reliable it would be to build one ourselves?  (the main concern would probably be operational heat inside the unit)

 

Any other ideas?

 

Thanks,

 

Russell

[bubbaQ]

Actually, many consumer-grade safes can dissipate internally created heat.  These safes typically work by absorbing heat through vaporizing microencapulated water (which is why when you open a safe that has been through a fire, everything inside is soaking wet).  The "insulation" is thus a decent conductor, as long as the temps don't exceed the boiling point of water.

 

They likely used USB since that is what the largest segment of the market will use and recognize, and USB supplies the power, so when the USB is disco, there is no power and thus no heat.

[RussellinSacto]

Hmmmm...

 

So, how do I cram an unRaid server in a waterproof fire safe and give it data and power from the outside?

 

Russell

[bubbaQ]

So, how do I cram an unRaid server in a waterproof fire safe and give it data and power from the outside?

 

You don't.

 

If your data is THAT critical, you need a second unRAID server off-site for backup.

 

With Comcast 1Mbps upload cap, you can send about 10 GB per day.... or to back up 1 TB, will take over 3 months.

 

Let me know how that works out for ya.

[RussellinSacto]

Minus the unRaid part, that's what I'm doing now... backing up to a remote service over my Comcast connection....

 

440 GB has taken since Thanksgiving.  :-)

 

It works lousy...  No better ideas?  :-P

 

Thanks,

 

Russell

[vdtruong]

Maybe set up a big WIFI dish on the roof aimed at the remote site?

 

 

May work...seriously

[bubbaQ]

Hell, just string some multi-mode fiber and do 100Base-FX ... you can go 2 km.

[JonathanM]

Making the assumption that protecting your data is #1 priority, perhaps you should build a small concrete bunker and pipe in power and fiber. That way you can have heavily protected storage away from a building fire, that is almost theft proof (security through obscurity is your friend here). I'm not talking about a walk in size, just big enough to set the appropriate hardware inside. Put it partially or mostly below grade, and you wouldn't need much if any temperature control depending on your local climate. Moisture control would be the biggest issue, and that could be accomplished with a small dehumidifier and vent system.

 

I can see a market for a prebuilt module that would be inserted into a spec built bunker meant to be buried in a small hole. Data server in a can. Kind of a mini version of the google data container systems.

 

Hmm. I might have to experiment a little. 

[RussellinSacto]

Jonathan,

 

I look forward to your first design...  I'll be willing to dig up my lawn to beta-test it for you. 

 

Based on the number of people interested in unRaid - the majority of whom I presume are home users or small businesses, you may very well be onto something.  I tried Bubba's solution - but my dogs dug it up, and I was only so far as my next door neighbor's.

 

Fortunately, my real job pays the bills, but my home based, spare time, fine art photography business represents substantial revenue...  and I can't afford to loose my data - it's all "genuinely unique", not something I can go out and get again - at any cost.

 

While it's not deeply profitable either, I'd be devastated to loose what I've worked so many years to create.  I bet many others are in the same boat.

 

I've got my shovel...  I'm waiting for you.

 

Russell

[brainbone]

440 GB has taken since Thanksgiving.  :-)

 

If you have an off site (remote) location available to store an unraid server (back-up storage) with a relatively high bandwidth link between your home (main storage) and the remote location, you can start by rsyncing all of your main storage to the back-up storage locally.  Then move the back-up storage to the remote location.  After this, rsyncing will only need to incrementally send the changed data.  Depending on how much and how often you make changes to the data on your main storage, incremental syncs to the remote back-up storage may be feasible.

 

[RussellinSacto]

BrainBone,

 

Phenomenal idea...  Unfortunately, this offsite server system I'm using is a remote SERVICE - not a machine I actually own. 

 

For those with similar needs, however, the price is right for Elephant Drive (elephantdrive.com)...  I think it's like $20 a month for UNLIMITED storage...  network drives are allowed...  You aren't required to have a local copy after the original upload...  Kinda buggy but seems to work.  File sizes limited to, I think, 2GB... But I use a file splitter and save my 15-20GB Photoshop files with little trouble.

 

I'm considering a mini-unRaid to be based at a neighbor's house, in the trunk of my car, or something similar...  Just because the initial load could be done locally.

 

Russell

[brainbone]

Depending on where you're located (gets too hot or cold) I would recommend against a trunk of the car solution.

 

A neighbors house, linked by a wireless bridge would likely be the easiest solution.  Something like this or this, depending on your situation, should work well.   Could be done much cheaper, but it sounds like you like to stay clear of DIY.  Of course, if your neighbor is very close, you probably already have a wireless link established.

 

If you're looking for a managed backup solution that uses your own storage, and are uncomfortable with configuring rsync and the like, LogmeIn Backup may be a viable option for you, however I have admittedly not used it for larger backups (over 500GB).

 

For local transfers, it should be able to transfer to the backup storage at near local speeds, when the backup storage and server are connected to your local network.  Useful for the initial load.

 

One of the benefits of Logmein Backup is that logmein manages firewall traversal and location management, so as long as both the backup server and desktop to be backed up has an internet connection, backups will be performed.  This gives you the flexibility to move the server or client to any location, provided it has a net connection.

 

The downfall is that you'll need a windows desktop connected to the backup storage acting as the backup server in the remote location, and another windows desktop to act as the backup client connected to the local storage on the local side.  That, and you end up paying a yearly fee to use your own storage.

 

[RussellinSacto]

Any ways to do exactly this, without a third party service?

 

Thanks,

 

Russell