Another "is this OK" post from a noob :)

Notes:

[*]purpose of server is two-fold:  1) centralized file storage across devices in my home; 2) centralized plex media server.  Hardware has to be suitable for both

[*]The mobo and (very old) case are already in my closet, so it saves me $$$ to use them.  If either/both are not at all suitable, however, I'll bite the bullet and buy new

[*]I'm looking for low electricity consumption and willing to trade SOME performance to get there.  On the other hand, if we're talking $2/year...

[*]I want reasonably low costs too.  So if, for example, 16GB is just mass overkill.. I'll be happy to save the cash.  Please advise.

[*]I do not expect to use more than 3 drives (2+1) during the lifetime of this machine.  Don't worry about "future expandability" please

[*]It will reside in a cool dark room in the basement.  Noise isn't a big concern

 

Here's what I have in my mind's eye:

 

CPU:  Intel G2030

Motherboard:  Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H (rev. 1.1)

CPU Fan:  Whatever comes with the CPU

Case:  VERY old (original) Antec Sonata.

Case Fans:  I have to replace them (incompatible with mobo) so I was thinking of one or two Cougar Vortex pwm.  The case can only hold two... but do I even need two?

HDD (x3):  WD Red 2TB (I may opt for 3TB just to be sure... still deciding). 

RAM: Team 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)

PSU: FSP Group AURUM S 400W

Graphics Card: A couple of GeForce GTX TITANs (yes, I'm kidding)

 

Thanks.  Appreciate the input.

if the only thing you are going to run on it is UnRaid + Plex plugin

you should be fine with 4 or 8 GB of RAM

UnRaid barely uses any RAM itself  and even with Plex trans-coding 8GB should be plenty.

 

setup looks good to me though...

 

now if this MB and CPU fully support VT-d

you can use 16GB RAM and setup ESXi on it

 

that would be cool  :-)

The motherboard/CPU is fine for what you want to do.

 

16GB is definitely "overkill" => I'd go with 8GB (2 4GB modules)

 

I would definitely use larger drives ... at least 3TB, and preferably 4TB.  You'll undoubtedly use more than you think 

All our data TOTAL combined including all programs and operating system files.... 1.78TB.  I'm just not seeing a need for more than 4TB in the time it would take to make this box obsolete... but I'll consider it.

 

Thanks for your guys' input (now I have to go look up what ESKi is)

I can think of no reason to virtualize your server (ESXi).

 

I DO, however, think you'll find that your data requirements will grow much more rapidly than you think 

All our data TOTAL combined including all programs and operating system files.... 1.78TB.  I'm just not seeing a need for more than 4TB in the time it would take to make this box obsolete... but I'll consider it.

 

Thanks for your guys' input (now I have to go look up what ESKi is)

 

I think you mean ES(X)i  ,

it is a VM Hypervisor from VMWare.

it is a very popular virtualizing host, especially here on unRaid.

given that you seams to have a quiet powerful MB+CPU combination

you can easily virtualize UnRaid and run Plex server in it's own VM.

I mean it is nice to have an option of Plex Plug-in but given the complexity it's bring to the setup and a chance of it's misbehaving and bringing down the whole setup I prefer having it run in it's own sandbox.

you do not have to start like this however, or going this route at all, it was just a though.

there are plenty of users here who run Plex server on unraid just fine.

 

 

 

 

 

I DO, however, think you'll find that your data requirements will grow much more rapidly than you think 

 

not necessarily so  :-)

I have started with 4T setup just like this one 2+ years ago

I am yet to get over 2T total data. I still run 3x2T drive setup.

 

I do have some plans that will require more space in a year or so, but I am already working on it, and I have known and was planning for that when I started.

not all people are maniacs, like some users here (:-P) , and record everything

 

I can appreciate the need for having more storage than I think I need... but honestly, I think what I "need" is 1TB... so I'm already looking at 4x what my current needs are.  When I said my total is < 1.5TB, that's including program files and OS files that don't need to (and shouldn't) go on the server's storage.  Even saying I need 1TB is probably shooting high.  Frankly, I can't even figure out why ANYONE needs so much space   Downloading every movie that comes out?  OK, but do you also keep what you've already watched?  Meh... to each their own.  I think 3x 2TB is already supreme overkill.  I'm willing to eat crow if I need more than that in the next 2 years.

If you're confident that you don't need more than 3TB (or 4TB) you may want to just add a pair of 3 or 4 TB drives to one of your current systems and configure them as a RAID-1 array.    You'll get much better performance than you will with UnRAID, since RAID-1 writes don't require parity calculations.

 

I'm a big fan of UnRAID ... but for data needs that aren't larger than a single disk, it's not necessarily the best choice.

 

Adding disks to a current system doesn't address any of my needs though.  As well, the PETCO is higher.  What's PETCO?  Its an acronym I just made up:  Pessimistic Expected Total Cost of Ownership.  If we assume one disk will fail during the system lifetime, then a 3x 2TB (4TB usable space) unraid costs 4x $105 = $420 PETCO (assuming harddrive costs remain the same... bad assumption, but whatever).  RAID1 4TB (4TB usable) costs 3x $210 = $630.

 

Even if we look at OETCO (yep, you guessed it... "O" is for Optimistic) we're still at 3x $105 = $315 vs 2x $210 = $420 for the same drive space.

 

Its a NAS/media server.  Drive performance really shouldn't be an issue.  I did consider RAID-1, RAID-5 and RAID-10 and each had its pros and cons.  Once I started reading about UnRAID though, I liked what I saw.  Even if I say I'm just going to go this route so I get some experience with something new to me... so be it.

 

Scalability is another factor.  I don't have a crystal ball.  I base my decisions on expected near-term needs.  But I know I'm fallible.  So if I do need to add another drive, well with UnRAID its no big deal, right?  I just get another drive.  Done.  But with RAID I need to get two more or mess around with altering the whole system.

 

 

No, I think I'm good on my choice and why I want to use UnRaid, and I think I'm good with my [starting point for] storage.  I really just wanted to make sure the CPU/Mobo/Ram looked good.  In particular, I wanted to know if I could cut down the RAM (thanks guys, for that answer).  Maybe some comments on case (nobody's mentioned it so I'm assuming then that it really isn't a big factor?).  Whether or not the drives (WD Red) I'm choosing are appropriate.  That kind of thing.    Not that I don't appreciate the advice on storage needs!  But I think I'm OK on that front.

No problem -- either choice is fine.

 

Just a note on your "PETCO" ...

 

Assuming your drive costs are correct (as you've noted, future replacements would likely be cheaper), you overlook one other cost of using UnRAID ==> you have to build and operate an additional system 

 

In addition, if you're using NAS drives (as you indicated), any failures in the first 3 years won't cost anything except a few $$ to return the RMA'd drive.

 

I completely agree, however, with the scalability benefits of UnRAID => yet another reason to use a larger size drive ... at least for parity, so you don't have to replace the parity drive if you should decide to increase the storage space.    In fact, using 3TB drives would let you have 50% more storage before you had to spring for a paid UnRAID license .... and 4TB drives would double the space.  If you start out with 2TB drives and want to expand while remaining with the free Basic license, you'd have to buy at least 2 higher-capacity drives ... e.g. buying 2 4TB drives to replace parity and one data drive would only add 2TB of space to your array.

 

The license isn't that expensive and by that point... if I were sticking with UnRaid anyway (presuming I'm happy with it, meeting my needs, etc)... I'd want to support the developers.

 

re: "have to build and operate an additional system"... that's required no matter which way I look at it.  I am *not* going to have my 400+ Watt gaming PC running 24/7 so I can watch a movie every other night or save a file on the rare occasion I'm doing work.  So that build is happening no matter what

 

You make excellent points regarding my flawed PETCO definition  lol.  I hadn't factored RMA into it at all and yes, costs certainly would go down as time goes by.

 

I am still considering 3TB... but I don't think so.  I just really don't think I'll need more than 4TB (total available) capacity during the life of the server.  Paying the $$ extra to protect against the "what if I'm wrong" just doesn't seem to outweigh the rather minimal cost of simply adding another 2TB drive if I am wrong.  If we assume I *am wrong* and I *will need* extra space, then yes I agree its best to just get bigger drives to begin with.  But that's the exercise, isn't it?  I have to evaluate a reasonable expectation... pad it some amount that I see fit... and then prepare for the future, which I think I'm doing by going with UnRAID and using a mobo and case that can accommodate a couple extra later.

 

 

Anyway, thanks again for your input.  I may end up going with the 3TB.  I won't entertain the 4TB (out of budget).

I can appreciate the need for having more storage than I think I need... but honestly, I think what I "need" is 1TB... so I'm already looking at 4x what my current needs are.  When I said my total is < 1.5TB, that's including program files and OS files that don't need to (and shouldn't) go on the server's storage.  Even saying I need 1TB is probably shooting high.  Frankly, I can't even figure out why ANYONE needs so much space   Downloading every movie that comes out?  OK, but do you also keep what you've already watched?  Meh... to each their own.  I think 3x 2TB is already supreme overkill.  I'm willing to eat crow if I need more than that in the next 2 years.

I don't download files - mine are recorded from Satellite/Cable STB and OTA and take between 3-8Gb per hour.  I'm at 140TB with 45-85% used (depending on unRAID server - I have 4: 3 for recordings 1 system backups).  I have several thousand movies recorded and 100+ series recorded.  I delete about 20% of what I record and watch about 30-40% within a week of recording and 50-70% within a year.  I have watched 20-30% multiple times.  Some were recorded as far back as 2004 (all SD recordings until late 2007 when I got my first HD-PVR) when I first purchased SageTV.  Most of those SD recordings have been replaced with HD if they have been rebroadcast.  I still have all of those SD recordings (1800+ movies that fit on a 2TB drive) because I put in allot of effort to edit them and compress them down so they would fit my then large 2TB Hardware card RAID 5 array (now they fit on one drive).  Heck my backup server is 10TB (N40L) and is 50-65% full and contains my download directory (where I download drivers, OS ISOs and other software) ~150-200GB, photos 250GB, System Images and backups.  It contains NO video files.

do they have a tv show called "Digital Horders"? 

 

I'm sure your point was to illustrate how I might need more space than I think... or you're just, what? bragging?  I don't know.  Anyway, to each their own and I'm sure you have your reasons, but what you're describing does not, in my opinion, reflect an appropriate use of resources.  I mean, by your own math, as much as 50% of what you record you don't even watch within a year?  Then why record it?  Why keep it??  But like I say, everyone has their own needs/wants/desires.  I'll try not to judge.

 

For me, I don't foresee downloading something I don't want to watch reasonably immediately and if I haven't watched it after X time, then I obviously don't really want to see it so I'll delete it (and chastise myself for wasting bandwidth).  As for watching something multiple times... that's SO rare with me that if I really want to see it again, I'll find it again and delete it again.  I could count on my hands the number of movies I've seen more than once.

 

Anyhoo... like I've said... I think I'm good with my storage needs.  And if I'm wrong, its easily remedied down the road.  Sort of the point of UnRAID, right?

I could count on my hands the number of movies I've seen more than once.

 

I suspect there are very few folks who can say that 

 

Certainly none of them are James Bond, John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, Tom Hanks, Tom Cruise, Julia Roberts, Will Smirth,  Eddie Murphy, Harrison Ford, Johnny Depp, etc. fans

 

...  DVD sales would, I suspect, be nearly non-existent if folks didn't like to watch movies more than once

 

do they have a tv show called "Digital Horders"? 

Yep that's me.

 

I'm sure your point was to illustrate how I might need more space than I think... or you're just, what? bragging?

No real point other than to show you how my needs differ and possibly give you something to think about.  The most relevant to your use might be from my N40L where I have ~5TB of backups from my other computer systems in the house.  Having backups has saved me many times and I can't keep just the latest because a problem doesn't always show itself right away.  I've had to go back several months to find a backup that worked.  So I keep a years worth currently.  Backups are daily because 90% of the time if I need something it is in the most recent backup from the night before.  It is the last 10% that takes up 90% of my backup space.

 

I don't know.  Anyway, to each their own and I'm sure you have your reasons, but what you're describing does not, in my opinion, reflect an appropriate use of resources.  I mean, by your own math, as much as 50% of what you record you don't even watch within a year?  Then why record it?  Why keep it??

Because 2, 3, 5, 10 years from now I will have watched it probably multiple times or deleted it if I don't like it.  But there is only about 20% that I've never seen at all in any form - Watched on TV before I got a VCR, Watched on Tape before I got a DVDR and Watched DVDs from my DVDR before I recorded on my computer.  Now I have everything in one place and is more portable if I want to take it somewhere.

 

For me, I don't foresee downloading something I don't want to watch reasonably immediately and if I haven't watched it after X time, then I obviously don't really want to see it so I'll delete it (and chastise myself for wasting bandwidth).  As for watching something multiple times... that's SO rare with me that if I really want to see it again, I'll find it again and delete it again.  I could count on my hands the number of movies I've seen more than once.

I know someone that said that about reading a book.  He reads it once and tosses the book.  I've got some books I've read 30 times and the pages are starting to turn yellow.

 

Anyhoo... like I've said... I think I'm good with my storage needs.  And if I'm wrong, its easily remedied down the road.  Sort of the point of UnRAID, right?

Yep.  For your use a DVR from the Satellite/Cable company would work if you recorded.  Downloading is one of those areas I don't get into.  I'm in a gray area now with ripping BluRay/DVDs to my HDDs.

I'm in a gray area now with ripping BluRay/DVDs to my HDDs.

 

I suspect a VERY high percentage of UnRAID users are in that same gray zone 

 

... and it's certainly a very high consumer of space with collections of any size

 

 

I've got some books I've read 30 times and the pages are starting to turn yellow.

 

30 times is a bit much, but I've got many that I've read several times.  One of the "joys" of ageing is that if you haven't read it in a few years, you can likely just read it again and enjoy it all over again   

 

I could count on my hands the number of movies I've seen more than once.

 

I suspect there are very few folks who can say that 

 

Certainly none of them are James Bond, John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, Tom Hanks, Tom Cruise, Julia Roberts, Will Smirth,  Eddie Murphy, Harrison Ford, Johnny Depp, etc. fans

 

...  DVD sales would, I suspect, be nearly non-existent if folks didn't like to watch movies more than once

 

Fair enough   I am a fan of 3 of those actors (JB is a character, but we understand each other) anyway.  But still, its pretty rare that I'll watch a movie more than once.  Oddly enough, there is one movie I've seen maybe 8 times and I can't figure out for the life of me why.  Its a chick-flick... its not that great... Drew Berrymore is the lead (and she hasn't done anything good since ET)... its not a genre I even like.  Frankly, I don't even like the movie.  But anytime its been on... I end up watching it all the way through.  Beyond that, I've seen The Usual Suspects twice (and both times it ended the same... go figure) and I plan to watch the original Star Wars series again (but I was < 12 when I saw them the first time, so I think that's forgivable).  Wow... I just remembered another movie that I've seen 3 times, and it too features Ms. Berrymore... hmmm.  Weird.

 

You make a good point about DVD sales though.  Of course you're right that I must be in the minority.  Also answers why I've never bought a DVD except in cases where it was in the discount bin and cost less than renting it.

I know someone that said that about reading a book.  He reads it once and tosses the book.  I've got some books I've read 30 times and the pages are starting to turn yellow.

 

Yup, I'm that way with books too.  I have NEVER read the same book twice.  Ever.  Not once.

 

I tried once.  Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.  I read it in hard cover back in the day and its always ranked as one of my favorites.  When I got a Kindle a couple of years ago I made to load it up with the intent of re-reading it.  I got a few chapters in when I realized I wasn't even paying attention.

 

Meh... whether I'm the weird one or you are... I go back to "to each their own"

So do you also never watch reruns on TV?

 

... that, of course, would SEVERELY limit your TV watching => but would also explain why you don't need much storage space for media.

 

I know someone that said that about reading a book.  He reads it once and tosses the book.  I've got some books I've read 30 times and the pages are starting to turn yellow.

 

Yup, I'm that way with books too.  I have NEVER read the same book twice.  Ever.  Not once.

 

I tried once.  Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.  I read it in hard cover back in the day and its always ranked as one of my favorites.  When I got a Kindle a couple of years ago I made to load it up with the intent of re-reading it.  I got a few chapters in when I realized I wasn't even paying attention.

 

Meh... whether I'm the weird one or you are... I go back to "to each their own"

We're just at opposite ends of the spectrum.  I suspect most are somewhere in between.

I suspect you're right Bob

 

Gary... yes,  I watch re-runs.  But they're first runs to me.  I hardly ever get to watch anything when it comes out, so by the time I do watch it... its a rerun.  But no, I don't see the same one twice (on purpose).

I know someone that said that about reading a book.  He reads it once and tosses the book.  I've got some books I've read 30 times and the pages are starting to turn yellow.

 

Yup, I'm that way with books too.  I have NEVER read the same book twice.  Ever.  Not once.

 

I tried once.  Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.  I read it in hard cover back in the day and its always ranked as one of my favorites.  When I got a Kindle a couple of years ago I made to load it up with the intent of re-reading it.  I got a few chapters in when I realized I wasn't even paying attention.

 

Meh... whether I'm the weird one or you are... I go back to "to each their own"

We're just at opposite ends of the spectrum.  I suspect most are somewhere in between.

 

...that'll be me then...I return to a good book definitely more than once...but the reason might be that i never read all the pages in a book..more flipping across, so to say 

Hi again guys...

 

I've got my parts on order now.  You might recall from my first post, where I said:

The mobo and (very old) case are already in my closet, so it saves me $$$ to use them.  If either/both are not at all suitable, however, I'll bite the bullet and buy new

Motherboard:  Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H (rev. 1.1)

And a couple of you confirmed that's a fine mobo for my purpose, etc.  Well, as it turns out, I need that mobo for my main rig as my Asrock failed again.  I only had that Gigabyte because my "high end" Asrock failed so I had that Gigabyte to tide me over for the week or two during RMA.  Well, it died again, so I'll just stick with the Gigabyte.  But then, that means I need a mobo STAT for this unraid/plex server build!

 

I did so much research for the build, but I basically ignored motherboards because I thought I had it covered.  Given the parts I listed on the first page... what would you recommend?  Thanks!