What is the latest on Popcorn Hour Compatibility?


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Hi I just purchased a unRaid server from Lime and will be getting it this week. I plan on starting off with 4 1.5 TB drives. My main use is backing up every DVD, Blu Ray and HDDVD file. I have 3 Popcorn Hour A110's. From searching and read on this forum I 'v read there is stutering when playing HD files. Is this still true? The latest version of unRaid that my server will have will still have this stutering? What is the definative answer to fix all problems while using with the popcorn hour. I appreciate any help to get prepared.

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I have tested Unraid with Popcorn A110.

 

The file i used for the test was "Elephants Dream" that is a constant 40mbit/sec movie file.

It simulate BD disk with very high bit rate.

 

The file can be downloaded from here

http://www.w6rz.net/

There are instructions there how to merge all the parts.

 

 

On SMB the speed is not enough to play this file without stuttering on the official version 4.4. The movie plays for 10 seconds and then hang. This is due to popcorn hour SMB performance limitation.

 

NFS exist only in beta version 4.5.

The beta includes only first implementation of NFS for user shares. From my tests there is a bug in NFS that cause it to use 100% of the unraid CPU when playing movies and jumping forward or backward in the movie.

 

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aitf311, MKV files have a much lower bit rate than Bluray rips. The test file was created to test high bit rate. These are the files I am playing.

 

bubbaQ, How do you use HTTP ? using another computer ?

100Mbit NIC is more the enough. Even the highest Bluray disks use only up to 60Mbit/sec and only for a very short time.

 

I am streaming all the high bit rate files from other NAS to Popcorn Hour without any issues over NFS.

 

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IIRC, the PCH documentation says the max data rat of the NIC is 44Mbps.

 

MKV is not a file format, it is a container.  You can put a 800Mbps media file in a MKV container.  There is also more overhead for the PCH to process MKV files than other containers, like avi.

 

An h.264 version of a BR disk can be 1/4 the bitrate of the same disk in VC1.

 

PCH only supports h.264 up to profile 4.1

 

bubbaQ, How do you use HTTP ? using another computer ?

 

I have Apache running my unRAID box with my own media server software (based on code from OpenShowCenter) that serves up html and streams my media.

 

 

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Looks like no real solution to get high bit rate videos streaming properly from an unRaid System. I'll try it out and see if I can get it to work but this server may be going back even if I have to take a 15% restocking fee hit. I bough this to work with my PCH and if I can't egt it to work after paying $1500 than I'll try something else.

 

Most of my files are Ts files and it doesn't look like they will work with unRAID.

 

 

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Looks like no real solution to get high bit rate videos streaming properly from an unRaid System.

 

Most of my files are Ts files and it doesn't look like they will work with unRAID.

 

 

 

I'm not sure while you would say that. The popcorn hour can support SMB up to about 38mbps. HTTP to 42mpbs. NFS to 32mbps. SMB speeds have been improved with recent firmware updates. I don't know if that trend will continue. These speed limitations are all on the PCH's end, not unraid.

 

Generally speaking, you'll have an easier time streaming high bitrate files via HTTP. You can use a program like myihome on another PC on your network or you can install llink on your unraid box. I know that others have done this, but I'm not linux-savvy enough to do it myself.

 

Personally, I just remux the m2ts files to remove the unnecessary video/audio/subtite streams and lower the required bitrate. I very rarely run into a movie that stutters and even then, it's only for a few seconds or so.

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Most of my files are Ts files and it doesn't look like they will work with unRAID.

 

You've got it backwards - the problem in the PCH, not unRAID.  I stream .ts files all the time off of unRAID, and can get very high speeds (over 300Mbps) but not to a PCH.

 

The PCH has a 100Mb network card.... so you need to transcode your .ts to h.264.  Transport stream (.ts) files are bulky, raw MP2 streams that will compress very well, with no loss of quality to MP4.

 

Let me put this another way -- there is NO SERVER IN THE WORLD you can buy that will stream hidef raw transport streams to a PCH.  You will have to either replace the PCH with something else that has bit ethernet, or transcode your media files from .ts to something else, like h.264 in an avi or mkv container.

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What is the definative answer to fix all problems while using with the popcorn hour.

 

Option A: Install an internal hard drive in the Popcorn Hour to store files with very high bitrate.

Option B: Replace the Popcorn Hour.

 

As others have mentioned the limitation here is the Popcorn Hour. You can't stream extremely high bitrate files to it no matter what the source. For the most part though, I don't think that there's a lot of content that will go over the 44mbps PCH wall or the 38mbps PCH SMB wall, assuming you're only streaming just the video and one audio track.

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Ok so the limitation is the PCH and not unRaid. Nonetheless PCH and unRaid are not compatible togethor. That’s my point. I have zero problems sharing all my files from a Samba shared PC. This includes all ts and M2ts files. I will not be changing out my PCHs.  I have 3 Popcorn Hours A110's at a cost of over $750. They play anything you throw at them.

 

By the way I rip my blu rays/HDDVD's and trancode to ts with only one sound track (usually AC3). Each file is about 20GB. I will not be adding hard drives to the PCH as the whole purpose of getting a server is to centralize my media and have an integrated backup solution.

 

Tom has agreed to work with me to see how we can get the PCH to work with unRaid. If I can't get it to work with all my files its going back and I'll try a NAS storage solution or Free NAS which people are saying works fine with TS and M2ts files.

 

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Ok so the limitation is the PCH and not unRaid. Nonetheless PCH and unRaid are not compatible togethor. That’s my point. I have zero problems sharing all my files from a Samba shared PC. This includes all ts and M2ts files. I will not be changing out my PCHs. I have 3 Popcorn Hours A110's at a cost of over $750. They play anything you throw at them.

 

By the way I rip my blu rays/HDDVD's and trancode to ts with only one sound track (usually AC3). Each file is about 20GB. I will not be adding hard drives to the PCH as the whole purpose of getting a server is to centralize my media and have an integrated backup solution.

 

Tom has agreed to work with me to see how we can get the PCH to work with unRaid. If I can't get it to work with all my files its going back and I'll try a NAS storage solution or Free NAS which people are saying works fine with TS and M2ts files.

 

 

I still don't think you understand. If your files will stream from your PC to the PCH via Samba, then they will stream from an unRaid server as well. Unraid is not the bottleneck here. You will run into the same bitrate limitations no matter what you use as a server - unraid/freenas etc.

 

That said, if your files are coming out at 20gigs, you're probably well below the 38mbps Samba limit and will not have any problems streaming to the PCH (which we already know because you can stream them from a PC without problems).  More specifically you're at about 22mbps assuming a 2 hour movie.

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Ok I guess I'll just have to see once I have everything setup. Yes streaming from my PC is 100% perfect to any of my PCH's. I have no problems with ts, mkv, m2ts, iso or any other files. I'll post back when I get the server this week and set it up. I think there are many people using Popcorn Hour since its a great mediaplayer that plays any file you could imagine and unRaid seems ideal for it. I first learned about unRaid on the PCH forum.

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Ok I guess I'll just have to see once I have everything setup. Yes streaming from my PC is 100% perfect to any of my PCH's. I have no problems with ts, mkv, m2ts, iso or any other files. I'll post back when I get the server this week and set it up. I think there are many people using Popcorn Hour since its a great mediaplayer that plays any file you could imagine and unRaid seems ideal for it. I first learned about unRaid on the PCH forum.

 

If you don't get any stutters/problems/etc streaming a file from another computer to the Popcorn Hour, then it's unlikely you'll experience any trouble streaming that same file from unRAID to Popcorn Hour. I use a Popcorn Hour and haven't experienced any stutters. Granted, I still haven't tried streaming Blu-ray (I just use the PS3 for Blu-ray playback), but as long as bitrates are below 38mbps, you should be good.

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Many people are still not ripping blu ray and hddvd movies yet since there is no available once click solution. I'm getting PM's as to how to do this. Basically you use AnyDvd to rip the data using a blur ray or hd dvd rom. Then I use a program called TONMT. Which is a collection of software used to demux (take apart) and remux various video and audio streams.

 

I'll post back results with streaming of these files work using Samba and unRaid. I can say for sure the unRaid community is very helpful.

 

Thanks

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I have to add that I recently built a new unRaid box from some old and new parts (new TB drives) for the primary purpose of hosting media files for my A-100 PCH.

 

It has worked flawlessly with one exception - because I enable the disks to spin down to save energy (and less noise), sometimes it takes a few tries for the PCH to "wake up" the disk.  This is minor as it only takes a few seconds.

 

If you were building a new unRaid box I'd say make sure to pick a Mobo that has a proven NIC (in terms of streaming performance), but it sounds like you are purchasing a solution, in that case it should work as fast as expected (within the constraints of your switch, cables, etc).

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If your Wireless router has Gigabit (10/100/1000) ports in it's built in switch, and you intend to transfer big files between your unRaid box and other PCs in your house, then I would plug them all into it.  Most older wireless routers usually have only 10/100 switch ports (same speed as the Popcorn Hour), so going from Gigabit to the PCH will not make things go faster.

 

I have my main PC and unRaid box connected through a cheap Dlink 5 port Gigabit switch (using Cat-5E or Cat-6 cables).  I do this because I transfer large files between the two.  I have one cable going from the Dlink switch to my Wireless router (which only has 10/100 ports) to give all LAN computers Internet access.

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If you have Gigabit in your unRAID box, you have to do store and forward switching to get to the PCH on a the 100Mbit side.  That has some additional latency, so make SURE you have a good GBit switch with lots of RAM and low latency.

 

 

I was just thinking about this, if using a typical cheap switch would it not be most likely a 100Mbps Unraid to PCH connection would provide the best performance compared to mixing speeds at the switch???

 

Create the movie files locally on your PC and then do a "drag and drop" before you go to bed or work to compensate for the slower network speed.

 

Peter

 

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The latency issues of switching segments from 1000MB to 100MB won't likely cause a lot of degridation... but it technically is an issue to consider.  Gigabit switches are all switches, (except for some very expensive cut-through mode switches) and not hubs like on 100MB.

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  • 7 months later...

To anyone looking at the Popcorn hour (A100/A110) - unRaid combination and are worrying about various bit rates moving files around, keep this in mind:

 

The transfer rates a Popcorn Hour can handle over various protocols are:

 

1. NFS ~38 Mb/s

2. SMB ~38 Mb/s

3. Http ~42 Mb/s

4. Internal hard drive ~42 Mb/s

 

Notice #4.  Even with the file sitting right there inside the box, the PCH (A100/A110) can't handle any higher of a bit rate, so no network solution in the world capable of 42+ Mb/s is going to benefit it.  The internal guts of the circuit board just can't handle it.  The new PCH (not released yet) has Gigabit ethernet and a faster processor, so one could handle more throughput.

 

For the PCH, unRaid should NEVER be the bottle neck unless you have some serious networking issues.

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