Which PCIe to USB 3.0 card for unRAID based on SuperMicro X7SBE ?

Hi All,

 

With all the infinite collective wisdom of this great forum... I'm still lost. Tried searching, tried browsing, tried compatible hardware lists in the Wiki... did not find any mentioning. So asking for help.

 

I've outgrown badly my current way (VCDs, DVDs, BDs - laying disorderly around and sitting on the shelves, various unorganized HDDs, and even one 5-bays hardware RAID)  of storing, so I decided to go unRAID. Kept an eye on unRAID for couple of years, now it seems to be the time.

 

Initial configuration will be:

 

Motherboard: SuperMicro X7SBE with Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 and 2GB RAM already on board (bought supercheap used off eBay)

SATA cards: Supermicro SAT2-MV8 (bought them supercheap used off eBay)

Case: LianLi full tower (remnants of my passed away desktop) (to be later replaced with Norco RPC-4224)

PSU: RAIDMAX RX-1000AE (just bought from Newegg as shell-shocker)

HDDs: 5x3TB green Seagates for data, 1 3TB 7200rpm Hitachi Toshiba (thnx to bw1 in "Good Deals" of this forum!) for parity (already purchased, all empty).

 

This is initial, I will be (quickly) adding at least 11x2TB  green drives of various makes, eventually filling up the Norco 4224 to full capacity, 'cause I plan to eventually copy/move all my data to unRAID and that's already to the north of 40 TB.

 

Now, since X7SBE does not have USB 3.0, and I feel I will desperately need it to load at least first 15 TB into unRAID, I started looking for PCIe to USB 3.0 card. Than I found that most of manufacturers provide only Windows drivers. SYBA seems to include drivers for Redhat and SuSE, but here I realized that I don't even know which flavour of Linux is unRAID based on.

 

I was looking at:

 

HooToo HT-PC002 - but was scared away by VIA VL800 Chipset, ' cause I read that Renesas chipset is more compatible.

 

SYBA SD-PEX20137 - Renesas chipset, but I  was kinda scared away by multiple "It fried my HDD!" reviews at Newegg...

 

 

So, questions:

 

1. Which flavour of Linux is unRAID based on? Found it. Slackware.

 

2. Which PCIe to USB 3.0 card would you recommend for unRAID on X7SBE? (budget is pretty flexible, I care more about compatibility and reliability than price)

 

3. Where to get Linux/unRAID drivers for such a card?

 

Many thanks in advance!

 

P.S. My technical level... well, probably safe to say it's above average. But not much . I'm professional application programmer... but I'm far from being a system administrator. I used to build my desktops myself... but last time I did that was 10+ years ago.

PSU: RAIDMAX RX-1000AE (just bought from Newegg as shell-shocker)

That appears to be 4 rail power supply.  The recommended PSUs are single rail supplies.  Going single rail would let you use something smaller like a 750 with your proposed future Norco case.  To get maximum speed from your X7SBE on parity checks you should ONLY plug in the 2 PCI-x AOC-SAT2-MV8 cards to the PCI-x slots.  Leave the other two slots open.  You should also use 1 133mhz and 1 100mhz slot and leave the other PCI-x slot of each speed open.  This leaves a x4 PCIe and a x8 PCIe available for expansion.  I would suggest you just transfer over the network as getting drivers for USB 3.0 in unRAID would likely require compiling your own kernel since unRAID currently doesn't support USB 3.0 as far as I know.

PSU: RAIDMAX RX-1000AE (just bought from Newegg as shell-shocker)

That appears to be 4 rail power supply.  The recommended PSUs are single rail supplies. 

Well, I don't mind resoldering PSIe power connectors to SATAs for feeding HDDs.

 

Going single rail would let you use something smaller like a 750 with your proposed future Norco case. 

Understood, but I just couldn't resist the deal. So I'm now quieting myself with a thought that I love overkills. 

 

To get maximum speed from your X7SBE on parity checks you should ONLY plug in the 2 PCI-x AOC-SAT2-MV8 cards to the PCI-x slots.  Leave the other two slots open.  You should also use 1 133mhz and 1 100mhz slot and leave the other PCI-x slot of each speed open.  This leaves a x4 PCIe and a x8 PCIe available for expansion. 

Got that. Thanks for the advice!

 

I would suggest you just transfer over the network as getting drivers for USB 3.0 in unRAID would likely require compiling your own kernel since unRAID currently doesn't support USB 3.0 as far as I know.

Drat!.. That's what I was afraid of... 

I would suggest you just transfer over the network as getting drivers for USB 3.0 in unRAID would likely require compiling your own kernel since unRAID currently doesn't support USB 3.0 as far as I know.

Drat!.. That's what I was afraid of... 

Another option is to use a temporary controller (eSata maybe) and/or sata port and just connect and transfer the drive contents from within unRAID.  There is a plugin called SNAP (new version is compatible with unRAID 5.0 final) that you could then use to handle hot pluging the drives.  I didn't suggest this because it might require extra hardware.  If you don't mind propping a hard drive loose in the case for the transfer then you could use an existing port on a card that supports hot plug (not sure MB ports or SAT2-MV8 support that).  If you don't have a Sata card/port that supports hot plug then you would have to shut down first to switch drives.

HDDs:[/b] 5x3TB green Seagates for data, 1 3TB 7200rpm Hitachi for parity (already purchased, all empty).

 

Since you've already bought all these, you're "stuck" with 3TB for at least these 6 drives => but I'd use all of them for data and buy a 4TB drive for parity, so you can use 4TB drives for future expansion.

 

 

Now, since X7SBE does not have USB 3.0, and I feel I will desperately need it to load at least first 15 TB into unRAID,

 

No need for this => you can load your data over the network.  A 100Gb network is plenty fast enough.

 

 

... I will be (quickly) adding at least 11x2TB  green drives of various makes

 

2TB ?? !!    Mistake.  Especially with the eventual capacity you're planning to achieve.  Except for the drives you've already bought, I wouldn't use anything smaller than 4TB.

 

 

... already to the north of 40 TB.

 

Definitely begs for 4TB (or larger) drives !!

 

Another option is to use a temporary controller (eSata maybe) and/or sata port and just connect and transfer the drive contents from within unRAID.  There is a plugin called SNAP (new version is compatible with unRAID 5.0 final) that you could then use to handle hot pluging the drives.  I didn't suggest this because it might require extra hardware.  If you don't mind propping a hard drive loose in the case for the transfer then you could use an existing port on a card that supports hot plug (not sure MB ports or SAT2-MV8 support that).  If you don't have a Sata card/port that supports hot plug then you would have to shut down first to switch drives.

OK... It starts taking shape now... I've never used eSATA before so my first thought was beloved USB 3.0, but if it's out of reach... so... My "sources" of filling the unRAID:

 

1. One 8TB hardware RAID Venus T5C DS-2350C, it's not NAS (no Ethernet interface), but it does have both uSB 3.0 and eSATA, so its content will be loaded to unRAID via eSATA.

2. 2TB HDDs, 11 of them - they will be "loaded" by physically adding the HDDs to unRAID.

 

3. A few thousands of VCDs/DVDs/BDs to be ripped/copied to unRAID... well, I'll need to think of it more. It will be very slow process anyway.

1. One 8TB hardware RAID Venus T5C DS-2350C, it's not NAS (no Ethernet interface), but it does have both uSB 3.0 and eSATA, so its content will be loaded to unRAID via eSATA.

 

I'd just connect it to another system, then copy the data via your network.    A Gb network provides far more bandwidth than UnRAID's write speed.

 

 

2. 2TB HDDs, 11 of them - they will be "loaded" by physically adding the HDDs to unRAID.

 

If these drives have data on them, the data will be lost when you add them to the array.  I'd relegate these older, relatively small hard drives as backups, and get new 4TB drives to copy their data to.

 

 

3. A few thousands of VCDs/DVDs/BDs to be ripped/copied to unRAID... well, I'll need to think of it more. It will be very slow process anyway.

 

Yes, it will take time to add these 

...

Another option is to use a temporary controller (eSata maybe) and/or sata port and just connect and transfer the drive contents from within unRAID.  There is a plugin called SNAP (new version is compatible with unRAID 5.0 final) that you could then use to handle hot pluging the drives.  I didn't suggest this because it might require extra hardware.  If you don't mind propping a hard drive loose in the case for the transfer then you could use an existing port on a card that supports hot plug (not sure MB ports or SAT2-MV8 support that).  If you don't have a Sata card/port that supports hot plug then you would have to shut down first to switch drives.

OK... It starts taking shape now... I've never used eSATA before so my first thought was beloved USB 3.0, but if it's out of reach... so... My "sources" of filling the unRAID:

 

1. One 8TB hardware RAID Venus T5C DS-2350C, it's not NAS (no Ethernet interface), but it does have both uSB 3.0 and eSATA, so its content will be loaded to unRAID via eSATA.

2. 2TB HDDs, 11 of them - they will be "loaded" by physically adding the HDDs to unRAID.

 

3. A few thousands of VCDs/DVDs/BDs to be ripped/copied to unRAID... well, I'll need to think of it more. It will be very slow process anyway.

Also note as garycase said using a GB network will allow you to transfer your files just as fast as using USB 3.0 or eSata - if you have your parity drive installed.  The write speed to your array will be less then the transfer speed across the network when using GB.  You could get faster speeds by not having a parity drive connected and going eSata but if you do that your data will be unprotected on your unRAID array for as long as you have no parity drive.  Most users prefer to have the data protected and just let the transfers take a slower but safer transfer.  It is also recommended that if you transfer them across the network to use something that will verify the transfer with checksums.  Something that could be done with eSata I suppose as well but normally if you are trying to increase the speed at the expense of safety the extra time to verify isn't worth it either.  I personally prefer the safer route but I don't see a problem using other methods as long as you know the risks before you start.  Since you would have your original as a backup you should be ok with a direct eSata transfer anyway.  I would also suggest you take your original drives out of your current array and copy your data back to them as backups since an unRAID array is NOT a backup it is just a fault tolerant pooled drive.

Now, since X7SBE does not have USB 3.0, and I feel I will desperately need it to load at least first 15 TB into unRAID,

No need for this => you can load your data over the network.  A 100Gb network is plenty fast enough.

 

Well, it's my (problematic) logistics... The unRAID server will be sitting on the second floor of the house (and I'd like to avoid moving it around), and I prefer to spend my time in the poolroom attached to the garage... which is connected via WiFi only.  I could probably throw in a temporary CAT6 patch long enough (about 100') to reach it... but... most time-consuming part of the "filling"  will be manual work of ripping/copying the DVDs/BDs and I think if the eSATA "filling" will work, I will just rip/copy onto some eSATA enclosed HDD and when it's full then move data from it into the unRAID.

 

... I will be (quickly) adding at least 11x2TB  green drives of various makes

2TB ?? !!    Mistake.  Especially with the eventual capacity you're planning to achieve.  Except for the drives you've already bought, I wouldn't use anything smaller than 4TB.

 

At this time I actually bought only one HDD - the 3TB 7200rpm Hitachi Toshiba (thnx to bw1 in "Good Deals" of this forum!). The 5 empty 3TB Seagates were bought few years ago for Library Genesis project which never happened. The eleven 2TB drives were purchased at different times and they are already filled.

 

I completely agree that 2TB and even 3TB are kinda smallish for the project, but I figured that my current setup will let me hold for  at least a year, and then the brave new future will arrive and even 4TB will be considered outdated... 

The eleven 2TB drives were purchased at different times and they are already filled.

 

So keep them as backups for that data.  Remember that UnRAID (or any other RAID) is NOT a backup.

 

2. 2TB HDDs, 11 of them - they will be "loaded" by physically adding the HDDs to unRAID.

 

If these drives have data on them, the data will be lost when you add them to the array.  ...

Damn... I did read this in the manual - the "preclearing" process - but managed to conveniently forget about it. So, the 22 terabytes chunk will have to be transferred as well...

 

1. One 8TB hardware RAID Venus T5C DS-2350C, it's not NAS (no Ethernet interface), but it does have both uSB 3.0 and eSATA, so its content will be loaded to unRAID via eSATA.

I'd just connect it to another system, then copy the data via your network.    A Gb network provides far more bandwidth than UnRAID's write speed.

 

Good point. The irony, however, is that I currently only have laptops so 3.5" HDDs wouldn't fit, and the only ones with USB 3.0 is mine and my wife's, daily used, I don't want to dedicate mine to transferring for days/weeks, and my wife wouldn't let me rob her of hers... And I really, really don't want to transfer 8+22=30 terabytes via USB 2.0. So, an eSATA enclosure seems to be the way... if I will be able to make it work. If not - then I'll have to buy some cheap desktop with 1 GB network... or think of some other way.

Using your daily use desktop won't tie up anything => just connect the drive; then start the copy to UnRAID.

 

Won't have much impact at all on other usage of the machine -- the copy isn't CPU-intensive; and you won't be using the USB3 drive or UnRAID, so the PC is just a "conduit".    You simply need to be sure you don't close the copy window -- just minimize it.

 

A 100' Ethernet cable comes in handy for a variety of things, by the way.  Not very expensive either:

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10232&cs_id=1023215&p_id=2119&seq=1&format=2

 

A couple bucks cheaper in Cat-5e [ http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10208&cs_id=1020814&p_id=2169&seq=1&format=2 ] => but personally I'd only buy Cat-6 cables.

Using your daily use desktop won't tie up anything => just connect the drive; then start the copy to UnRAID.

 

Won't have much impact at all on other usage of the machine -- the copy isn't CPU-intensive; and you won't be using the USB3 drive or UnRAID, so the PC is just a "conduit".    You simply need to be sure you don't close the copy window -- just minimize it.

Logistics! Were I sit there is no Ethernet, WiFi only.

 

A 100' Ethernet cable comes in handy for a variety of things, by the way.  Not very expensive either:

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10232&cs_id=1023215&p_id=2119&seq=1&format=2

 

A couple bucks cheaper in Cat-5e [ http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10208&cs_id=1020814&p_id=2169&seq=1&format=2 ] => but personally I'd only buy Cat-6 cables.

On the other hand... I would hate to drill walls just for temporary network patch cable, but given the circumstances... and if I will be able to set i up so that "temporary" cable could be installed/removed easily... to be able to provide 1 GB network to the poolroom whenever needed... this is definitely a viable option.

 

Given the Ethernet will work with setup like this: 5' from the router to outdoor network receptacle -> 50' between the buildings -> outdoor network receptacle -> indoor network receptacle -> 25' from indoor network receptacle to the laptop...

 

Hmmm. I wrote this and now I'm starting to think that a cheapo used desktop with 1Gb Ethernet would be not only simpler, but also cheaper... especially considering the amount of work for my old worn tired hands...

... On the other hand... I would hate to drill walls just for temporary network patch cable ...

 

If there's no path without drilling holes, don't drill them.  Just use these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122464

 

Also note as garycase said using a GB network will allow you to transfer your files just as fast as using USB 3.0 or eSata - if you have your parity drive installed.  The write speed to your array will be less then the transfer speed across the network when using GB.  You could get faster speeds by not having a parity drive connected and going eSata but if you do that your data will be unprotected on your unRAID array for as long as you have no parity drive.  Most users prefer to have the data protected and just let the transfers take a slower but safer transfer.  It is also recommended that if you transfer them across the network to use something that will verify the transfer with checksums.  Something that could be done with eSata I suppose as well but normally if you are trying to increase the speed at the expense of safety the extra time to verify isn't worth it either.  I personally prefer the safer route but I don't see a problem using other methods as long as you know the risks before you start.  Since you would have your original as a backup you should be ok with a direct eSata transfer anyway.  I would also suggest you take your original drives out of your current array and copy your data back to them as backups since an unRAID array is NOT a backup it is just a fault tolerant pooled drive.

Thanks!.. I did not even know there is a possibility to write to unRAID with parity disabled. However I do agree that this would probably not worth the risk, especially in my particular situation, when the bottleneck is anywhere but the unRAID writing itself.

... On the other hand... I would hate to drill walls just for temporary network patch cable ...

 

If there's no path without drilling holes, don't drill them.  Just use these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122464

 

Oh my... I'm freaking obsolete. Last time I was looking at the net-over-the-powerlines was, like, 15 years ago, and I completely forgot about it... Now it's a Gb net for reasonable price - definitely worth a try! Thanks!

They work very well too => just be sure you get the 500Mb/s version -- there's a slightly less expensive (and slower) 200Mb/s version.

 

In addition to the simple one-port pair I listed above, you can get these:

 

(a)  A 4-port switch version:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122423

 

(b)  A version that has not only an Ethernet connection, but a built-in WiFi access point (VERY handy when you need better wireless at a point away from your router):  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2E11427940

Ok... just to update. Or rather to explain to myself what I'm doing - helps to prevent getting lost, you know. NORCO case is still in the mail, so I'm playing with unRAID temporarily housed in LianLi tower, no hot-swap cages for me so far, but the case, for now, conveniently lays open and on its side, demonstrating intestines and providing easy access. Not all HDDs are installed, just the initial set of 5x3TB data. But the rest of the hardware is there, so I started trying various files transfer schemes. Use of network is still not an option.

 

Learned:

Bare 2TB HDD with regular NTFS can be easily (temporarily) installed in the case, not assigned to unRAID array, but mounted (read-only) separately, files copied into unRAID array (rate ~40MB/s with parity enabled, ~80-90MB/s with parity drive unassigned).

 

Most of my filled HDDs are 2TB, so for them I will use the "drop-in-the-case-mount-copy" scheme. One HDD will take (without parity) some 6-8 hours to copy, Not so bad.

 

The 5-bay 8TB hardware RAID Venus T5C DS-2350C is, well, different. I have attached it to unRAID via eSATA, unRAID sees the hardware fine, but stock unRAID NTFS driver does not support NTFS under GPT (i.e. drives over 2.2 TB), so it can not be mounted.

 

So, for this 8TB piece... two options: copy (via USB 3.0 on my laptop) one 2TB chunk from Venus onto 2TB HDD, than "drop-in-the-case-mount-copy", repeat until complete, will supposedly take 8 copying sessions 8-14 hours each.

 

Second option: learn how to install ntfs-3g (advanced driver, reportedly capable of mounting large NTFS under GPT drives), install it, try to mount the Venus RAID directly to unRAID via eSATA. If it works, it will be one 24+ hours copying session.

 

Hmm... I definitely like the second option better. So back to reading forum and manuals.

I could easily be wrong here but if - you install unMenu on unRAID (which does work as I have it installed) - the ntfs-3g install is in the package manager.

I could easily be wrong here but if - you install unMenu on unRAID (which does work as I have it installed) - the ntfs-3g install is in the package manager.

Yes, I did that. Unfortunately, mount still does not work.

From mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sdc /mnt/__raid__/ I'm getting:

NTFS signature is missing.
Failed to mount '/dev/sdc': Invalid argument
The device '/dev/sdc' doesn't seem to have a valid NTFS.
Maybe the wrong device is used? Or the whole disk instead of a
partition (e.g. /dev/sda, not /dev/sda1)? Or the other way around?

From mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sdc1 /mnt/__raid__/ I'm getting (obvious, since there is no sdc1):

 

ntfs-3g: Failed to access volume '/dev/sdc1': No such file or directory

ntfs-3g 2010.3.6 integrated FUSE 27 - Third Generation NTFS Driver
	Configuration type 1, XATTRS are on, POSIX ACLS are off

Copyright (C) 2005-2007 Yura Pakhuchiy
Copyright (C) 2006-2009 Szabolcs Szakacsits
Copyright (C) 2007-2010 Jean-Pierre Andre
Copyright (C) 2009 Erik Larsson

Usage:    ntfs-3g [-o option[,...]] <device|image_file> <mount_point>

Options:  ro (read-only mount), remove_hiberfile, uid=, gid=,
          umask=, fmask=, dmask=, streams_interface=.
          Please see the details in the manual (type: man ntfs-3g).

Example: ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 /mnt/windows

Ntfs-3g news, support and information:  http://ntfs-3g.org

 

Looks like this Venus RAID box does not quite follow NTFS specifications. When I'm attaching this RAID box to a Windows laptop, there is their proprietary JMRaidSetup.exe (outstandingly ugly piece of software, by the way) process waiting in memory, which probably takes care of mounting.

 

It's just interesting to note that unMenu still can do "disk transfer speed tests (using hdparm -tT)" on it:

/dev/sdc:
Timing cached reads:   8816 MB in  2.00 seconds = 4413.80 MB/sec
Timing buffered disk reads: 676 MB in  3.01 seconds = 224.82 MB/sec

 

Well, anyways, I'm back to "option one" - copying from it piece by piece.

Oh, and one more learned thing to mention: SATA ports on motherboard Supermicro X7SBE seems to be not supporting  hot-plugging  of HDDs. However ports on Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 do hot-plugging just fine - I love those little cards . Something to be taken into account when assigning ports...

Looks like this Venus RAID box does not quite follow NTFS specifications. When I'm attaching this RAID box to a Windows laptop, there is their proprietary JMRaidSetup.exe (outstandingly ugly piece of software, by the way) process waiting in memory, which probably takes care of mounting.

 

Well, anyways, I'm back to "option one" - copying from it piece by piece.

Sounds like it is using a software layer in between the drive and the OS - good that you can at least copy it piece by piece.  I'm currently transferring about 9TB across the network myself.

Oh, and one more learned thing to mention: SATA ports on motherboard Supermicro X7SBE seems to be not supporting  hot-plugging  of HDDs. However ports on Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 do hot-plugging just fine - I love those little cards . Something to be taken into account when assigning ports...

Can't say I ever tried to hot plug a drive to the X7SBE MB ports or a SAT2-MV8 so good to know.

Oh, and one more learned thing to mention: SATA ports on motherboard Supermicro X7SBE seems to be not supporting  hot-plugging  of HDDs. However ports on Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 do hot-plugging just fine - I love those little cards . Something to be taken into account when assigning ports...

 

I don't have that motherboard, so I can't confirm whether or not this is the case, but I've seen many motherboards where SATA hot-plug is an option in the BIOS.    Check carefully to confirm that's not simply disabled in the BIOS.

 

Oh, and one more learned thing to mention: SATA ports on motherboard Supermicro X7SBE seems to be not supporting  hot-plugging  of HDDs. However ports on Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 do hot-plugging just fine - I love those little cards . Something to be taken into account when assigning ports...

 

I don't have that motherboard, so I can't confirm whether or not this is the case, but I've seen many motherboards where SATA hot-plug is an option in the BIOS.    Check carefully to confirm that's not simply disabled in the BIOS.

With one of the reboots I've spent full 10 minutes looking for it in the BIOS, did not find anything obviously related. On the other hand, I don't understand half of the terms and options in this BIOS... Any advices of what particular term/option/keyword to look for?

 

I'm planning to put, in the first server, 18 or 19 drives, and two SAT2-MV8s will only provide 16 ports, so I will have to use some of the mobo ports (there are 6 of them). It would be nice to have all ports with hot-plugging capabilities.

Does the BIOS allow you to enable/disable the "Safely Remove" option shown in Windows?

 

If so, that's effectively the same as enabling/disabling hot-swap.