Author Topic: WOW, I screwed up big time!  (Read 872 times)

Offline maddog808

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WOW, I screwed up big time!
« on: November 25, 2013, 11:06:46 PM »
I love Unraid. Been using it for 3 years now, and it has saved my data twice already due to disk failures.

Here is my current challenge:

  • My 755 movies used to be single files (.mkv, .avi, .iso, etc), except for a handful of DVD rips in the VIDEO_TS structure; and I always let each XBMC client scrape for and locally store metadata.
  • I never had a need for split level, so I never made any changes to the default setting.  :-[
  • I recently decided to create a folder for each movie, and use Media Companion to download and store all metadata on my Unraid server.
  • All 3 of my 2TB data disks were equally full (about 96%) when I decided to do this.
  • As Media Companion started adding nfo, tbn, jpg etc files to my movie folders, Unraid created duplicate movie folders across 2 or 3 drives, because my allocation method is high water. This happened for hundreds of movies. My movie share is 3.5TB.
  • Now I'm having issues with XBMC clients and other stuff because the metadata is separated from the movie file, etc.

I've since adjusted my split level setting to make sure this doesn't happen with new movies that get added to the movie share, but this doesn't help my current problem of hundreds of duplicate folders across 2 or 3 drives.

I started to manually consolidate files back into one folder (the one with the movie file), and delete the remaining empty duplictate movie folder(s). I did this using Windows, with each disk open in it's own window using 2 monitors (so I can see which movie folders are duplicated). After 25 movies, and I'm still in the A's, I decided this was going to take way too long.

I've already searched for an answer, but the suggestions I've found aren't feasible for my specific scenario:

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=3672.msg31819#msg31819
http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=18196.msg163188#msg163188
http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=29648.msg266060#msg266060
http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=16378.msg150893#msg150893


I tried Midnight Commander, but it isn't logical, because I need to see all three disks' contents in order to know which movie folders are duplicated.

If I had a 4TB external hard drive, I would just move my entire movie share to it, then move it back to unraid, and split level would take care of it, right? But I don't have a 4TB drive.

If my motherboard and case had any room, I'd add a couple drives during Black Friday sales, and just move the entire share to a new share (different name), and let split level fix it. Maybe it's time to upgrade??  ::)

Any suggestions? I know I'm missing something. Just can't think outside of the box right now.  :o

Thanks in advance for any help at all,
Matt
My Unraid Server Plus 5.0.5 (12 drive capable) Budget Build
CPU: AMD A6-5400K  --  MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-F2A85XM-D3H (8 SATA III ports on-board)
RAM: G.SKILL 8GB DDR3 1600  --  CASE: Rosewill LINE GLOW ATX Mid (8 - 3.5" bays)
CAGE: Cooler Master 4-in-3  --  SATA CARD: SYBA 4 port SI-PEX40064  --  PSU: Corsair CX500
STORAGE: 2 X WD20EARS, 2 X Barracuda Green 2TB, 2 X WD10EADS  (All pre-cleared)
PARITY: Seagate Barracuda LP 2TB  --  CACHE: Old repurposed Fujitsu 120GB laptop drive
APPS: Unmenu, SABnzbd, CouchPotato, Sickbeard  (I plan to use Crashplan & maybe Plex)

Offline garycase

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Re: WOW, I screwed up big time!
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2013, 11:12:26 PM »
Be sure your backups are up-to-date;  then just delete all of the movies;  set the split level; and then copy them back.

If you don't have backups, then that's the FIRST thing you should resolve before worrying about upgrades, etc.

As for the issues you're having with playback from your clients, that's most likely due to the need to spin up a drive in the midst of playback.    You can easily resolve that by either putting all of your drives in the same spin-up group;  or just disabling spindown (manually spinning them down when you know you won't be using the server).

In addition to keeping the drives spinning, use Cache_Dirs to ensure the directory structure doesn't require drive access => this will make access very quick regardless of which disk a file is on (particularly since it will already be spinning).

Offline maddog808

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Re: WOW, I screwed up big time!
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2013, 11:48:45 PM »
Be sure your backups are up-to-date;  then just delete all of the movies;  set the split level; and then copy them back.

If you don't have backups, then that's the FIRST thing you should resolve before worrying about upgrades, etc.


Thanks for the rapid response!!  :)

By "backups", do you mean the parity drive in my Unraid server, or a separate external backup of my Unraid server? I thought if I delete movies from my Unraid share, it deletes them from parity as well.

Also, the initial problem that prompted me to investigate wasn't media playback. When I did a test run of XBMC, to see how the library looked without scraping for new metadata, some of the fanart and posters weren't showing up because they were in separate folders. Also, when I tried to delete a couple old movies from the movie share that I didn't want anymore, it wouldn't delete unless I accessed each disk's movie folder, and deleted them one at a time.

I hadn't previously read about Cache_Dirs. That actually is a brilliant idea, and I'm definitely going to install the plugin once I get this straightened out.
My Unraid Server Plus 5.0.5 (12 drive capable) Budget Build
CPU: AMD A6-5400K  --  MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-F2A85XM-D3H (8 SATA III ports on-board)
RAM: G.SKILL 8GB DDR3 1600  --  CASE: Rosewill LINE GLOW ATX Mid (8 - 3.5" bays)
CAGE: Cooler Master 4-in-3  --  SATA CARD: SYBA 4 port SI-PEX40064  --  PSU: Corsair CX500
STORAGE: 2 X WD20EARS, 2 X Barracuda Green 2TB, 2 X WD10EADS  (All pre-cleared)
PARITY: Seagate Barracuda LP 2TB  --  CACHE: Old repurposed Fujitsu 120GB laptop drive
APPS: Unmenu, SABnzbd, CouchPotato, Sickbeard  (I plan to use Crashplan & maybe Plex)

Offline Fireball3

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Re: WOW, I screwed up big time!
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2013, 12:30:24 AM »
A RAID system, also unRAID, is not a backup!
It delivers only a small amount of "backup" due to parity but the main purpose of a RAID is to enhance availability.
Having a (single) parity will save you from a single drive failure but won't protect you against
user faults (e.g. erroneusly deleting files) and system wide (e.g. controller corrupting data) faults. Only a full backup does!
This is what Gary stresses over and over again - and he's right.


unRAID 5.x running on AMD Sempron 140 @ ASUS M4A87TD EVO & 2x DELL Perc H310 @ LSI9211-8i IT (P16)

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Offline garycase

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Re: WOW, I screwed up big time!
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2013, 12:49:04 AM »
As Fireball3 noted, the parity drive simply provides UnRAID the ability to be fault-tolerant.   It is NOT a backup.    If you delete a file from UnRAID, it's gone.  Period.

So yes, what I meant by backup is an actual backup.   If you have 755 movies and no backup, you're definitely running a risk of significant data loss if you don't have them backed up.  [I have more than 5 times that many movies and they're all absolutely backed up !!]

Since your collection is fairly modest at this point, you can, as you noted, back up everything on just one backup drive at this point.   You'll clearly need more later -- but for now you should buy a 4TB external drive and backup your collection.    This will not only correct a major oversight in your system, but will let you easily resolve the allocation issue.





Offline BobPhoenix

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Re: WOW, I screwed up big time!
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2013, 06:44:02 AM »
What I did to consolidate my files was:
  • use my cold spare as a cache disk but don't set any shares to use it
  • run Midnight Commander (mc) to do the file movement
  • move a small fraction of my files from the /mnt/user0 user share to the /mnt/cache share
  • look in the unRAID GUI for the drives the empty folders are on by browsing the shares - I also used this before step 3 to see which folders/files I needed to move in the first place
  • delete the empty folders from the /mnt/disk? shares - if any are left after the move
  • decide which drive I want to copy the cache files to
  • move the remaining files on that drive to another array drive
  • move the files from /mnt/cache to that disk share (/mnt/disk?)
  • repeat steps 3-8 until all files are moved then remove the cache disk
Since my cold spare was as big as my largest drive (3TB) I could move about 3TB of data at one time.  This will allow the files to be accessible at all times during the movement but it does leave them unprotected while they are on the cache drive.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 07:22:56 AM by BobPhoenix »
1 - 6.0b5a unRAID server: Lian Li V2000, Tyan S5512GM4NR, 16GB, E3-1240, IBM M1015 to Intel RES2SV240, Win7x64 VM 6GB.
2 - 5.0rc16c unRAID server: Lian Li V2000, Tyan S5512GM2NR, 2GB, VM - ESXi 5.0, E3-1230, IBM M1015 to Intel RES2SV240.
3 - 5.0rc16c unRAID server: Lian Li V2000, SM X9SCM-F, 2GB, VM - ESXi 5.0, E3-1230, IBM M1015 to Intel RES2SV240.
4 - 6.0b5a unRAID server: Lian Li V2000, SM X7SBE, 8GB, Q9550, 10x 3TB Toshibas - 1 WHS2011 VM.
5 - 5.0 unRAID server: N54L, 5 - 4TB Seagate ST4000DM000 1 3TB ST3000DM001
6 - 6.0b5a unRAID server: N40L, 9 - 2,3,4TB 7200rpm Hitachi drives 5 in external cage

Offline maddog808

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Re: WOW, I screwed up big time!
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2013, 06:51:25 PM »
What I did to consolidate my files was:
  • use my cold spare as a cache disk but don't set any shares to use it
  • run Midnight Commander (mc) to do the file movement
  • move a small fraction of my files from the /mnt/user0 user share to the /mnt/cache share
  • look in the unRAID GUI for the drives the empty folders are on by browsing the shares - I also used this before step 3 to see which folders/files I needed to move in the first place
  • delete the empty folders from the /mnt/disk? shares - if any are left after the move
  • decide which drive I want to copy the cache files to
  • move the remaining files on that drive to another array drive
  • move the files from /mnt/cache to that disk share (/mnt/disk?)
  • repeat steps 3-8 until all files are moved then remove the cache disk
Since my cold spare was as big as my largest drive (3TB) I could move about 3TB of data at one time.  This will allow the files to be accessible at all times during the movement but it does leave them unprotected while they are on the cache drive.

Bob,

That is a lot of steps. Seems like you needed the share to be available during the consolidation process. I, on the other hand, do not have that need.

I remembered I have a spare 2TB drive in my desktop computer. How about this for a simple fix:

  • Move half of the 3.55TB movie share to the empty 2TB drive, then move it back to Unraid.
  • Repeat step 1.

Thanks for the help,
Matt
My Unraid Server Plus 5.0.5 (12 drive capable) Budget Build
CPU: AMD A6-5400K  --  MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-F2A85XM-D3H (8 SATA III ports on-board)
RAM: G.SKILL 8GB DDR3 1600  --  CASE: Rosewill LINE GLOW ATX Mid (8 - 3.5" bays)
CAGE: Cooler Master 4-in-3  --  SATA CARD: SYBA 4 port SI-PEX40064  --  PSU: Corsair CX500
STORAGE: 2 X WD20EARS, 2 X Barracuda Green 2TB, 2 X WD10EADS  (All pre-cleared)
PARITY: Seagate Barracuda LP 2TB  --  CACHE: Old repurposed Fujitsu 120GB laptop drive
APPS: Unmenu, SABnzbd, CouchPotato, Sickbeard  (I plan to use Crashplan & maybe Plex)

Offline maddog808

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Re: WOW, I screwed up big time!
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2013, 06:59:51 PM »
As Fireball3 noted, the parity drive simply provides UnRAID the ability to be fault-tolerant.   It is NOT a backup.    If you delete a file from UnRAID, it's gone.  Period.

So yes, what I meant by backup is an actual backup.   If you have 755 movies and no backup, you're definitely running a risk of significant data loss if you don't have them backed up.  [I have more than 5 times that many movies and they're all absolutely backed up !!]

Since your collection is fairly modest at this point, you can, as you noted, back up everything on just one backup drive at this point.   You'll clearly need more later -- but for now you should buy a 4TB external drive and backup your collection.    This will not only correct a major oversight in your system, but will let you easily resolve the allocation issue.

OK. I was pretty sure that was what you meant by backup. My entire Unraid server size is around 5.5TB. This is movies, TV shows, music, home videos, documents, etc. A 4TB drive won't do much good for backups. What do you suggest, then? Another Unraid server to back up all the data on this Unraid server?

Thanks for enlightening me. Unraid has saved me twice when a disk failed. I just figured the chances of multiple disk failures was slim enough to not worry about it. Now you have me paranoid!  :o

I always appreciate the wise words of someone with more experience than me, so thanks again for reading & replying.  :)

Matt
My Unraid Server Plus 5.0.5 (12 drive capable) Budget Build
CPU: AMD A6-5400K  --  MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-F2A85XM-D3H (8 SATA III ports on-board)
RAM: G.SKILL 8GB DDR3 1600  --  CASE: Rosewill LINE GLOW ATX Mid (8 - 3.5" bays)
CAGE: Cooler Master 4-in-3  --  SATA CARD: SYBA 4 port SI-PEX40064  --  PSU: Corsair CX500
STORAGE: 2 X WD20EARS, 2 X Barracuda Green 2TB, 2 X WD10EADS  (All pre-cleared)
PARITY: Seagate Barracuda LP 2TB  --  CACHE: Old repurposed Fujitsu 120GB laptop drive
APPS: Unmenu, SABnzbd, CouchPotato, Sickbeard  (I plan to use Crashplan & maybe Plex)

Offline garycase

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Re: WOW, I screwed up big time!
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2013, 08:27:13 PM »
With only 5.5TB to back up, you could just use two external drives (a pair of 4TB units would do nicely).    In my case, I've got 39TB to back up, so I use a collection of spare drives that I store in plastic drive boxes and access via eSATA disk caddies.

But regardless of how you do it, if your data is important to you, it should be backed up.   I tell all of my clients/friends to always assume that your hard drive is going to disintegrate at midnight.   If there's anything on there you're going to be upset at losing, be sure it's backed up.

This applies whether you're talking about a single PC;  an UnRAID server; or any other gadget that holds data on a hard drive.

Offline maddog808

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Re: WOW, I screwed up big time!
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2013, 09:19:27 PM »
This makes sense. So, what's the easiest back up system, that requires the least amount of user input? I don't want to buy 2 external drives at this time, but I think I can find enough random drives, and maybe just put them in my office desktop PC?

I have a full time job, I'm married, and I have a 4 year old and 7 year old. My free time is VERY limited, to say the least!!  ;)

Thanks,
Matt
My Unraid Server Plus 5.0.5 (12 drive capable) Budget Build
CPU: AMD A6-5400K  --  MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-F2A85XM-D3H (8 SATA III ports on-board)
RAM: G.SKILL 8GB DDR3 1600  --  CASE: Rosewill LINE GLOW ATX Mid (8 - 3.5" bays)
CAGE: Cooler Master 4-in-3  --  SATA CARD: SYBA 4 port SI-PEX40064  --  PSU: Corsair CX500
STORAGE: 2 X WD20EARS, 2 X Barracuda Green 2TB, 2 X WD10EADS  (All pre-cleared)
PARITY: Seagate Barracuda LP 2TB  --  CACHE: Old repurposed Fujitsu 120GB laptop drive
APPS: Unmenu, SABnzbd, CouchPotato, Sickbeard  (I plan to use Crashplan & maybe Plex)

Offline garycase

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Re: WOW, I screwed up big time!
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2013, 01:31:04 AM »
Buy a dock => eSATA, USB3, or USB2 depending on what you have available on your desktop PC.

Something like this:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153071
                  or this:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=0VN-0003-000H5

[A USB3 dock like the 2nd one is an excellent choice if you have a USB3 port ... you may even want to get that dock and ADD a USB3 port to your system if it doesn't have one.  e.g.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=17Z-0002-00002 ]


Then just insert your spare disks one-at-a-time and copy as many of your movies as will fit;  then repeat the process with other disks until all of your movies are backed up.    These are excellent for storing the full backup disks (I use them too):   http://www.rakuten.com/prod/wiebetech-drivebox-anti-static-3-5-hdd-case-plastic1-hdd/220702380.html

As you fill the disks, save a directory of the disk so you can easily find anything you need to restore.   I write a directory to a PDF file, but you can do whatever you find most convenient.

Once you have your current collection backed up, it's easy to keep it that way => just keep a "next" backup disk in the dock; and copy anything you're going to copy to the server to that backup disk as well.    Keep the backup disks in a safe place -- away from your 4 & 7 year olds  :)
[I keep mine in a fireproof, waterproof, data-rated safe ... well away from my grandkids prying eyes and hands]

Offline trurl

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Re: WOW, I screwed up big time!
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2013, 06:40:27 AM »
I don't backup everything, just the things that would be difficult or impossible to replace. My wife's photography, our financials and other documents, our music. Movies are too big and not important enough to me to bother. The important stuff from my 5TB will easily fit in 2TB. I use SNAP to mount eSATA disk formatted ntfs which can be easily read without unRAID. I use rsync script to copy only the important stuff. I typically do this once a month. The resulting backup is stored offsite at my office.

You don't have to have a disk failure to lose important data. I unintentionally deleted some music from my server once and was glad I had a way recover it.
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