First unRAID - On a budget

Hello Everyone,

 

I’m excited to build my first [budget] unRAID system. I have about 3TB in my P180 case and I’m out of space again. I’ll cut to the chase and list out what I’m thinking of using as my hardware...

 

CASE: COOLER MASTER Centurion 590 RC-590-KKN1-GP - $36.99

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA785G-UD3H - $89.99 (Little more expensive, but has the right SB to unlock the CPU)

SATA CONTROLLER: 3 x Rosewill RC-207 PCI Express x2 - $19.99/each

HDD Enclosure: 3 x COOLER MASTER STB-3T4-E3-GP 4-in-3 - $23.26/each

PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W - $99.99

CPU: AMD Sempron 140 (can unlock later) - $36.99

RAM: G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 - $38.99

 

(I already have the hard drives)

 

Total = ~$435

 

1. The Coolmaster case is very popular, but one of my goals is to have my hardware as compact as possible. Can anyone recommend a case with maybe 6 x 5.25 bays.

 

2. I've had a Seasonic in my current PC and very happy with it. Its a solid brand that will deliver solid/clean power, but is 550w enough? Also, I've seen a lot of mention about "single rail" whats the advantage of this and how are these listed (like on newegg)?

 

3. Raid is great for redundancy, but its not a backup unless you have 2 copies. I currently have a 1:1 copy of every HD off-site. I use syncBack SE monthly to sync the drives (the media drives don't change much). I'm going to have a total of 6 x 500gig and 2 x 1.5TB in the unRAID. I don't fully understand how the space will be used. How can I calculate my total space? One of the 1.5TB's will be for parity, but does that mean the rest of that drive will be unavailable space?

 

My technical level is medium to high. I'm a software developer and not as savvy with hardware, but I can build a computer. I've been reading the forums, but any lessons learned from experienced unRAID users would be greatly appreciated.

 

That's all for now, thanks.

 

If your on a budget forget the Supermicro trays. Sure they are excellent but there a ncie to have only and an open frame with a fan will give you far better colling.

 

RAM is higher than you need but if your doing the ls caching it will help alot.

 

Dont build a new system using PCI sata controllers. Sure they are cheap per port but parity performance drops vastly when you start filling them up. Better to use your onboard sata ports and add a PCIe sata card later when the price drops.

 

just some random thoughts

Thanks NAS

 

That was the old HDD cage I was looking at. I thought I changed it before I posted. It is expensive, and I changed my original post to reflect the COOLER MASTER STB-3T4-E3-GP 4-in-3 instead.

 

You are right about the ram. I'll use G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2.

 

As for a PCIe sata card, I've seen some other posts about the Rosewill RC-218, but it received so-so reviews. Can you suggest a decent brand/card? I guess I could get one 8 port PCIe SATA II card and use the 4 others on the MB to utilize all 12 HD, right?

 

 

Thanks NAS

 

That was the old HDD cage I was looking at. I thought I changed it before I posted. It is expensive, and I changed my original post to reflect the COOLER MASTER STB-3T4-E3-GP 4-in-3 instead.

 

You are right about the ram. I'll use G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2.

 

As for a PCIe sata card, I've seen some other posts about the Rosewill RC-218, but it received so-so reviews. Can you suggest a decent brand/card? I guess I could get one 8 port PCIe SATA II card and use the 4 others on the MB to utilize all 12 HD, right?

Actually, unRAID today supports 17 drives.... 1 parity, 15 data, and 1 cache drive AND

the most current beta release was supposed to increase that to 21 drives (1 parity, 19 data, and 1 cache)  Unfortunately, that feature does not yet work... but the new limit (once it is fixed) for the array is not 12, but 21 drives.

 

I can't guide you on the SATA cards to purchase...  The inexpensive cards will get you going, but be slower once you get past a few drives...  You will be no worse than many of us old-timers with PCI based machines though... as long as you don't mind longer parity check times once you start adding drives, you'll be fine....  On my array, with 10 data drives, the largest being 1TB, it took about 18 hours for a parity check... during which we also used the server to play a movie..  It ran from mid-afternoon when I started it to 5AM... much of it happened overnight while I was sleeping.

 

There are some PCI-ex cards that will run in a PCI slot, but at the slower speed.  I know one with 8 ports was mentioned in another post recently, and it was about $99 at newegg.  It might work in your current MB (if it fits) and be faster still when you upgrade the MB some time in the future and it can go in a PCI-e slot.

 

Joe L.

Thanks Joe L.

 

I’m a hardware n00b and have been researching my options all weekend. I want to set myself up for the future. When it comes time to add a hard drive, I want the rest of my hardware ready. I’m going to purchase 3 of those Coolmaster cages even though only 2 of them will be used at first.

 

So on to making sure I have plenty of throughput for 12 HD is where I’m lost now. A Port Multiplier sounds like it will divide the throughput of one SATA II port, right? This would not be best for performance, right again?

 

I know one with 8 ports was mentioned in another post recently, and it was about $99 at newegg.  It might work in your current MB (if it fits) and be faster still when you upgrade the MB some time in the future and it can go in a PCI-e slot.

 

Are you referring to the SUPERMICRO AOC-SAT2-MV8 card (which I was going to get)? It has a PCI-X interface. Will this go in the PCI or PCIe slot for me?

 

1. The MB I picked out has one PCI Express x16 and one PCI Express x1 slot. What is the difference?

 

2. The MB has 4 SATA ports already, so I need 8 more ports to be ready for 12 hard drives. Can a PCIe 4-port card go in both the PCI Express x1 and PCI Express x16 slot? Would 2 Rosewill Silicon Image RC-209-EX cards work?

 

3. Should I choose a different MB with either more on-board SATA slots or more PCIe slots?

 

Look at a 740g chipset motherboard and a Sempron processor or the Athlon II 240 processor? The 740g will give you 6 onboard SATA for about the same cost.

 

I don't know of a smaller case but just seach newegg and see what you find.

 

I would think 550W would be enough for 12 drives. There are some good deals on 650W Corsair power supplies right now and that would be good too. Single rail means only one 12V power source. Look for a power supply with a single amperage listed for the 12V. If you see 12V1 and 12V2 then that is a dual rail.

 

The 1.5T parity will be completely used to provide parity protection for the 1.5T data drives. There will be no space that is not used.

 

There is a cheap 8-port SATA PCI express controller that is not supported right now but hopefully will be in the future. If you don't need the drives right now then start with the 6 onboard and wait until later for the expansion controller. If it does not happen, you can put a 4-port SATA controller in the PCIe x16 slot and a 2-port SATA controller in the PCIe x1 slot getting a total of 12 SATA ports. Look at the unRAID official server because the cards are listed there. It'd cost about $120 to get the 6 ports but the drives will be much faster on the PCI express buss.

 

 

Peter

 

Lionelhutz,

 

Look at a 740g chipset motherboard and a Sempron processor or the Athlon II 240 processor? The 740g will give you 6 onboard SATA for about the same cost.

 

Thanks for the advice on the Sempron 140. I think the GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2 can over clock that chip for some more performance if needed. And its is pretty low power too.

 

 

...you can put a 4-port SATA controller in the PCIe x16 slot and a 2-port SATA controller in the PCIe x1 slot getting a total of 12 SATA ports. Look at the unRAID official server because the cards are listed there. It'd cost about $120 to get the 6 ports but the drives will be much faster on the PCI express bus.

 

I can fit into the budget the official unRAID Adaptec 2240900-R PCI Express PCIe SATA card.

 

*original post has been updated* How does it look now?

It looks good but it seems silly to buy SATA cards now when you dont need them. The prices will likely drop alot by the time you actually need it and hopefully the range of choices will increase to.

 

Id forget the card this now completely

Here's a cheaper alternative to the Adaptec 4 port PCIe card.

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=4139.0

 

I would wait until you actually need the ports.

By the time you need them, an 8 port card might be available.

 

I have 2 of those Supermicro 8 port sata pci-x cards. They go in either a PCI-X or regular PCI slot. I don't think they can go in a PCI-e slot unless you use a BIG hammer... The blade connector is too long.. 

 

Joe L may have a different card in mind but the card you listed will not work in a PCI-e slot..

I have 2 of those Supermicro 8 port sata pci-x cards. They go in either a PCI-X or regular PCI slot. I don't think they can go in a PCI-e slot unless you use a BIG hammer... The blade connector is too long.. 

 

Joe L may have a different card in mind but the card you listed will not work in a PCI-e slot..

It was the one I was thinking of.  I was obviously not correct... Thanks for the correction.

I have 2 of those Supermicro 8 port sata pci-x cards. They go in either a PCI-X or regular PCI slot. I don't think they can go in a PCI-e slot unless you use a BIG hammer... The blade connector is too long.. 

 

Joe L may have a different card in mind but the card you listed will not work in a PCI-e slot..

It was the one I was thinking of.  I was obviously not correct... Thanks for the correction.

 

Just glad I could help.. 

That motherboard has 1 PCIe x16 and one PCIex1.

 

The SATA cards in your parts list are PCIe x4 which require a x4 x8 or x16 slot. Since the motherboard only has 1 PCIe x16 slot then you can only fit one of those cards.

 

I have read about someone modifying the PCIe x1 connector so that a PCIe x4 card would fit. It required cutting some of the plastic of the connector so the card would drop into place.

 

There are motherboards with more PCIe x4 slots so you could do what you are trying. Try looking through the Motherboard section for ideas.

 

The first question we should have asked - How many SATA ports (and therefore hard drives) do you eventually want the server to have?

 

The 740g boards are good for about 12 hard drives on the PCIe busses otherwise you have to accept the slower speed and put some drives on the PCI buss.

 

Peter

 

I've changed my motherboard to the GIGABYTE GA-MA785G-UD3H If I plan to unlock the other core of my CPU I supposedly need southbridge 710 (or 750). It's little more expensive, but it does come with on-board video. I can't seem to find mention of compatibility with unRAID though.

 

NAS:

It looks good but it seems silly to buy SATA cards now when you dont need them.

My system will have a total of 8 drives right from the beginning. 6 x 500g, 1 x 1TB and 1 x 1.5TB (parity). I do need a SATA card because there are only 6 ports on the MB.

 

lionelhutz:

...you can put a 4-port SATA controller in the PCIe x16 slot and a 2-port SATA controller in the PCIe x1 slot getting a total of 12 SATA ports.

I see, so the PCIe x16 could support a 16 port card? How can a PCIe x1 use a 2 port card? (sorry if that is a dumb question, I have never used a SATA card before).

 

Thanks WeeboTech I will get that card.

The x16 or x4 or x1 is the number of PCIe lanes in the connector. It has nothing directly to do with the number of SATA ports. However, it seems that 2-sata port cards are built for a x1 slot and 4 or 8 sata ports cards are built to fit a x4 slot. Any smaller number will fit in a larger slot, for example a x1 will plug into a x4 or x16 slot.

 

So, lets look at that new motherboard.

 

PCIe x16 - you could put that 4-sata port card in there.

PCIe x4 - you could put a 4 SATA port card in there.

PCIe x1 #1 - you could put a 2 SATA port card in there.

PCIe x1 #2 - leave empty

PCIe x1 #3 - leave empty

 

or

 

PCIe x16 - you could put that 4-sata port card in there.

PCIe x4 - leave empty

PCIe x1 #1 - you could put a 2 SATA port card in there.

PCIe x1 #2 - you could put a 2 SATA port card in there.

PCIe x1 #3 - you could put a 2 SATA port card in there.

 

The notes say the 2nd and 3rd PCIe x1 slots are shared with the PCIe x4 slot so you can not use them both at the same time.

 

This gives you a total of 10 more drives up the ability to add 4 more drives later....

 

I would check with Gigabyte to ensure that you can use a SATA card in the x16 slot. Some motherboards use that slot for graphics only. The 740g is good. I don't even know if the 785g will run unRAID let alone the PCIe x16 slot capability.

 

Consider this. If 12 drives is enough:

740G + 1 2-port SATA + 1 4-port SATA = $125

785G + 3 2-port SATA = $150 plus room to add 4 more ports.

 

So save $25 but possibly limit yourseif in the future. Or, just plan on upgrading to bigger drives instead of adding more drives. The case is limited to 12 with the 4 into 3 adapters so the 740g solutions seems the best match to your case selection.

 

Peter

 

lionelhutz:

...you can put a 4-port SATA controller in the PCIe x16 slot and a 2-port SATA controller in the PCIe x1 slot getting a total of 12 SATA ports.

I see, so the PCIe x16 could support a 16 port card? How can a PCIe x1 use a 2 port card? (sorry if that is a dumb question, I have never used a SATA card before).

 

Thanks WeeboTech I will get that card.

 

I just got my card today, I'll post results in a couple days.

 

As far as the PCIe x1 vs SATA Speed.

 

Each 1x is capable of 256MB/s in each direction simultaneously.

I suppose they figure that at a drives theoretical physical speed of 120Mb/s a 1x slot can support 2 drives at full speed in one direction.

Actually I think in practice the lane can support more.  If you notice the 2 port Sil3132 cards are port multipliers, so in theory they can support 10 drives.

 

With PCIe there are dedicated lanes of communication from chipset to hardware.

I.E. each hardware device (card) can be communicating to/from the device and chipset/cpu/memory without slowdown/interaction from other devices.

 

In comparison, the PCI bus supports a max of 133Mb/s in one direction at a time. Each device (card) contends for access to the bus.

 

PCI 2.0 brought this to 66Mhz and is reported to allow up to 533mb/s. (The Promise TX4 supports 66Mhz bus if your motherboard does).

 

PCI-X is a high-performance variant of 64-bit PCI designed for servers. PCI-X adapters and slots are backward-compatible with 32-bit PCI slots and adapters.

   * PCI-X 1.0 increased the maximum signaling frequency to 133 MHz (peak transfer rate of 1066 MB/s) and revises the protocol.

   * PCI-X 2.0 permits a 266 MHz rate (peak transfer rate of 2133 MB/s) and also 533 MHz rate (4266 MB/s — 32× the original PCI bus), expands the configuration space to 4096 bytes, adds a 16-bit us variant (allowing smaller slots where space is tight), and allows for 1.5 volt signaling

 

 

More reading Here:

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=2974.0

 

And here

 

Common Buses and their Max Bandwidth

PCI 132 MB/s

PCI 2.1 64-bit 500 MB/S

AGP 8X 2,100 MB/s

PCI Express 1x 250 [500]* MB/s

PCI Express 2x 500 [1000]* MB/s

PCI Express 4x 1000 [2000]* MB/s

PCI Express 8x 2000 [4000]* MB/s

PCI Express 16x 4000 [8000]* MB/s

PCI Express 32x 8000 [16000]* MB/s

IDE (ATA100) 100 MB/s

IDE (ATA133) 133 MB/s

SATA 150 MB/s

SATA 300 MB/s

Gigabit Ethernet 125 MB/s

IEEE1394B [Firewire]  100 MB/s

USB Full-Speed            12 Mbit/s (1.5 MB/s).

USB High-Speed (2.0) 480 Mbit/s (60 MB/s)

 

Interesting Links

http://www.pixelbeat.org/speeds.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peripheral_Component_Interconnect

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI-X

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB

 

 

Hmmm, seems like we need a WIKI Article.

 

 

 

 

 

FWIW, I would suggest sitting tight and do not buy any controllers until the day comes you need them.

Oh yeah, the 590 case comes with a 4 into 3 adapter already so you only need 2 more to fill the case.

 

Peter

Thank you lionelhutz (and everyone else) for helping me understand this better. I ordered the case, cages, and CPU today. The main reason I switched to the 785g was because its ability to unlock the second core in the Sempron 140. Posts around the interwebs say a southbridge 710 (or 750) is needed to unlock "successfully".

 

Like you said, I have not seen any post with unRAID running on a 785g. I could take a gamble since the Gigabyte products are so popular for unRAID. I'm holding off ordering it for a bit. I just emailed Gigabyte to check if a SATA card can be used in the x16 slot.

 

Oh yeah, the 590 case comes with a 4 into 3 adapter already so you only need 2 more to fill the case.

 

yea, I know. I'm splurging to keep the case consistent 

Thank you lionelhutz (and everyone else) for helping me understand this better. I ordered the case, cages, and CPU today. The main reason I switched to the 785g was because its ability to unlock the second core in the Sempron 140. Posts around the interwebs say a southbridge 710 (or 750) is needed to unlock "successfully".

 

Like you said, I have not seen any post with unRAID running on a 785g. I could take a gamble since the Gigabyte products are so popular for unRAID. I'm holding off ordering it for a bit. I just emailed Gigabyte to check if a SATA card can be used in the x16 slot.

 

Oh yeah, the 590 case comes with a 4 into 3 adapter already so you only need 2 more to fill the case.

 

yea, I know. I'm splurging to keep the case consistent 

Just be aware that the Gigabyte BIOS puts an HPA (host-protected area) on the first disk it thinks it can.  If it puts it on your parity drive it might make it "smaller" than your data drives and your array will not start...  Look in the WIKI for "HPA" and "pain" and possibly "hair loss" and you will understand. 

 

Other than that, the Gigabyte MB seem to work fine...

 

Joe L.

 

yea, I know. I'm splurging to keep the case consistent 

 

Oh, you could have just taken the plastic parts off the front of the others and they would all hide behind the front of the case. The case has performated metal 5.25" drive slot fillers with filters on them. I just realized I hadin't commented on that yet...

 

A single core is lots of CPU power for an unRAID server.

 

Joe - I don't think every Gigabyte board will force a HPA on one of the drives but some will.

 

Peter

 

Thanks for informing me about the HPA issue with Gigabyte boards. There is a lot of info on the web and this forum about the issue. One post I read here mentioned something about this being fixed in new unRAID server. I also found this review on the GIGABYTE GA-MA785G-UD3H. If you look at the first BIOS picture on the second row there is an option "Backup BIOS Image to HDD". I wonder if this will disable the HPA feature.

 

Joe,

do you know of a way to check the disks on the server to see if HPA has been added?

 

lionelhutz,

You are right about the single core. Linux doesn't need much power. I like the CPU's low power consumption too. I haven't asked if having a video card on the unRAID is needed (maybe at first). Regardless if I go with the 740g or 785g HPA may be out of my control.

 

 

Thanks for informing me about the HPA issue with Gigabyte boards. There is a lot of info on the web and this forum about the issue. One post I read here mentioned something about this being fixed in new unRAID server.

I don't remember it ever being "fixed" but different Linux releases handled the HPA differently.  It is possible it was thought to be fixed.  I know for sure it is recognized in current releases, as one user spent a lot of effort trying to remove it, and could not...  had to play a shell-game to get the larger disk used as parity.

I also found this review on the GIGABYTE GA-MA785G-UD3H. If you look at the first BIOS picture on the second row there is an option "Backup BIOS Image to HDD". I wonder if this will disable the HPA feature.

Wow, that sure sounds like it would disable it... be really nice if it did.  You would want to disable that option.  Some Google searches described a similar BIOS option in a hidden BIOS menu (made visible with Control-F1)

Joe,

do you know of a way to check the disks on the server to see if HPA has been added?

Yes, just use the

hdparm -N /dev/sdX

command, substituting the correct drive for /dev/sdX

 

Joe L.

Both the 740g and 785g have built in video.

 

It's easy to tell if there is a HPA when you have multiple drives of the same size. The interface gives the drive sizes and one will be a little smaller.

 

Peter

 

Before you attach any drives to this Gigabyte board boot up into the BIOS and see it you can disable the HPA related stuff.  As soon as you attach a drive and boot the machine it will try to put the HPA on the first drive it sees.

 

I had this problem when i was first setting up my server, even though i currently use an Abit board.  I had been testing out my drives on a board that happened to be a Gigabyte and it added this HPA.  I had to do some swapping around to get the largest drive to be my parity.