help on first build - noob

Hi everyone,

 

I follow this forum for quiet some time now and am about to build my very first (unraid) server.

I really like the PC-Q25 and so I looked into different threads with this case.

 

I mainly want to use it as NAS (HD/4K-streaming to my Kodi HTPC) and also want to install some dockers I think.

Maybe in the future I want to make use of virtual machines but I don't think that I will install a graphics card so IOMMU isn't a topic for me if I understand this correct.

Last but not least I want to be sure that it is future-proof.

 

Well I still have some questions on the components and I hope some of the experts in here can clear me up.

At first I wanted to use desktop components but after reading into ECC I decided to go for server hardware only.

 

 

Case: Lian Li PC-Q25 Black Hot Swap Mini Tower Case

 

 

Board: ASRock E3C224D4I-14S

I don't know if the single PCIe 3.0 x8 slot is enough and it is important to stick to a specific order concerning the SATA and SAS2 ports?

Another question on the board: what kind of internally mounted usb 3.0 port adapter would you recommend?

 

 

CPU:  I want to use an Intel Xeon E3 v3 but as I just have experience in building desktop PCs I don't really know where to start here.

If I understand this correct for my needs VT-x support would be enough, right?

 

 

RAM: I would order 16GB of ADATA ADDE1600W8G11-BMID or innodisk M3C0-8GSS3LPC as suggested in the ASRock QVL - is this okay?

Another question I have is for how many HDD-Drives 16GB of DDR3 RAM in total is enough?

Is there a rule of thumb maybe?

 

 

PSU: Silverstone ST45SF 450W SFX

Is 450W enough even when I use a full setup of HDD drives and maybe SSD-Cache drives?

 

 

Disk: 2x 4TB WD Red (1 data, 1 parity)

Can I use these even when its not listed in the ASRock QVL?

Would you suggest using the SATA cables coming with the drives or should I order different cables?

 

 

Cache: I won't use a cache drive at first, but definitely sometime in the near future

 

 

USB:  Cruzer Fit (8GB)

Is USB 3.0 a topic or is 2.0 enough?

Is there maybe another USB-stick that would be a better choice in regard to wear leveling for example.

 

 

I also want to use BeQuiet Silent Wings 2 PWM fans as I already own them as intace (140mm) and exhaust (120mm) fans.

I am also thinking of getting a good cpu cooler. Do you have any suggestions here?

 

 

I hope someone can answer my questions and/or has additional tips for me.

PSU: Silverstone ST45SF 450W SFX

Is 450W enough even when I use a full setup of HDD drives and maybe SSD-Cache drives?

 

Disk: 2x 4TB WD Red (1 data, 1 parity)

Can I use these even when its not listed in the ASRock QVL?

Would you suggest using the SATA cables coming with the drives or should I order different cables?

 

USB:  Cruzer Fit (8GB)

Is USB 3.0 a topic or is 2.0 enough?

Is there maybe another USB-stick that would be a better choice in regard to wear leveling for example.

 

My 2 cents FWIW.

The SanDisk Cruzers I've been using for years and are probably some of the most reliable flash drives I've used.

The Fit I haven't used but I did start using the UltraFit  recently, not long enough to really test it.

I think USB 2 is fine since Unraid is loaded into RAM and is run from there once loaded.

 

You can use the SATA cables that come with the drives but locking type are better since there is less chance of knocking them loose from the MB but they don't always lock in the drives at least not mine.

 

Not sure what you mean by "full setup of HDD drives". How many is that?

 

I have been running 6 x 7200rpm drives since the beginning of 2010 with a 400 watt supply on my #1 server, listed below.

The drives draw the most current when they all start up at the same time like when you boot the system.

Of course the CPU and MB also draw power but I back when I built server #2 I calculated for 10 drives the SuperMicro server board and i3 CPU and that one has the 450 watt supply.

 

I think I used a round number of 2 amps at start up for each drive x 10 drives = 20 amps x 12volts = 240 watts.

My PSU on server #2 can supply +12v @ 37amps., server #1 is 30 amps.

The rest is left for CPU, MB & FANs and whatever additional cards you use & the other voltage buss's.

The power supply must be single rail for the +12 volts and the max current on that +12 volt buss needs to be able to supply what you need plus some extra maybe 25% or so.

If you are running 20 drives that would be 40 amps. needed at +12v so I think the specs of your supply is +12 at 36 amps., it may not be enough but enough for 6 or 10.

If your drives draw less then use that number instead of my 2 amps.

 

I'll let others chime in and correct me if I'm wrong..

 

I have that case and PSU. I have run 7 WD Reds + 2 SSDs without any problems. You can't really fit any more drives than that in the case anyway.

 

I think there have been a few reported issues booting from USB3. No real advantage for unRAID boot drive anyway so I would just go with USB2. I believe Sandisk Fit is what unRAID is shipping these days if you get one from them. That's what I am using now.

 

Since you have a backplane, locking cables are slightly less important, but I use them and see no reason to pinch pennies there. Probably 90% of issues are caused by bad connections.

 

The number of drives has no impact on the amount of RAM you need. I have 16GB (just because), but many are doing fine with only 4GB or even less. The NAS functionality doesn't need much. Depends on what else you want it to do. Dockers and VMs will need some.

 

I got a mobo/CPU that would support IOMMU (also just because) but in the end used my PCIe slot for additional SATA ports. I run headless and don't even run any VMs at the moment, since there are so many dockers to choose from.

thanks for the replies. That helped me already.

There are a few other things that came up to me while getting more into virtual machines, though.

 

Right now I have a HTPC with three internal (old) drives with all of my media.

Although I have Kodi set up on it, I watch and record tv over my Samsung Smart TV which is connected to an external HDD where it stores all the recordings.

 

So what I wanted to do with the unraid server is getting rid of the drives in my HTPC and move the media to the server, of course.

 

But when I build an unraid server which is capable of vt-x/vt-d and add a gpu to it, will it also be possible to start a Windows VM from it with Kodi installed which starts automatically right after unraid booted?

And will it be possible to not only passtrough the gpu but also a tv tuner adapter so that I can watch and record tv over the unraid server's VM?

In addition, would it be possible to assign a non-array, non-cache HDD to the VM which can be used for timeshift and tv recordings?

 

Is this the way it works? Because I'm thinking of getting rid of my HTPC then completely.

 

When I should do all of this, is the PC-Q25 still the right case, because I could not find a mini-ITX mainboard with enough PCIe and SATA slots for this purpose.

 

Thanks in advance.

thanks for the replies. That helped me already.

There are a few other things that came up to me while getting more into virtual machines, though.

 

Right now I have a HTPC with three internal (old) drives with all of my media.

Although I have Kodi set up on it, I watch and record tv over my Samsung Smart TV which is connected to an external HDD where it stores all the recordings.

 

So what I wanted to do with the unraid server is getting rid of the drives in my HTPC and move the media to the server, of course.

 

But when I build an unraid server which is capable of vt-x/vt-d and add a gpu to it, will it also be possible to start a Windows VM from it with Kodi installed which starts automatically right after unraid booted?

And will it be possible to not only passtrough the gpu but also a tv tuner adapter so that I can watch and record tv over the unraid server's VM?

In addition, would it be possible to assign a non-array, non-cache HDD to the VM which can be used for timeshift and tv recordings?

 

Is this the way it works? Because I'm thinking of getting rid of my HTPC then completely.

 

When I should do all of this, is the PC-Q25 still the right case, because I could not find a mini-ITX mainboard with enough PCIe and SATA slots for this purpose.

 

Thanks in advance.

Just noticed your mobo selection is extended mini-ITX. Don't know if that will fit the case or not.

 

As you say, tuner card + graphics card are probably not going to work mini-ITX. Maybe a USB tuner could be used.

 

I don't have any personal experience but I know there are a lot of posts on the forum about these things. See search tips in my sig.

 

You could use a network/Ethernet tuner such as http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=HDHomeRun&N=-1&isNodeId=1 I'm using 2 of the HDHomeRun tuners, that gives me 4 Channels.

I don't use VMs but do have an HTPC built around a MacMini and EyeTV and I use UnRaid as a big hard drive to record to and playback from.

I often record 4 1080p OTA channels and play a 5th at the same time. I've tried Plex & XBMC(Kodi) but they just don't do it for me because of the recording aspect, which the most important for me and my wife can use it..

One more thing because of the way we use it.. I can't take 24 hours or more to replace/rebuild a bad drive or Parity check so I use 5 1TB drives and can be up and running in about 4 hours.

I may try fewer 2tb drives in the future but need to compare rebuild/parity check speed to the 1 TB drives. Maybe instead of 5 1TB I's use 3 2TB drives.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

But after thinking about GPU passthrough I still can't decide wether I need it or not.

 

This is why I made two lists.

 

Build 1: Low Power vt-x only, no need for GPU

 

Case: Lian Li PC-Q25B

PSU: SilverStone ST30SF 300W SFX

MB: Asus H87I-Plus

CPU: Intel Core i3-4130T

RAM: 2x G.Skill DDR3L 1600 DIMM 4096MB F3-12800CL8D-8GBECO (I'm not sure if the MB supports DDR3L)

Otherweise: 2x G.Skill DDR3 1600 DIMM 4096MB F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL

Drives: 2x WD Red WD40EFRX 4TB SATA 6Gb/s

Flash Drive: SanDisk 8GB Cruzer Fit USB 2.0 Flash Drive

CPU Cooler: be quiet! Shadow Rock LP Topblow

Intake Fan: be quiet! Silent Wings 2 PWM 140x140x25mm

Exhaust Fan: be quiet! Silent Wings 2 PWM 120x120x25mm

USB-Adapter: DELOCK MBz USB Pinheader Bu > 2x USB2.0-A Bu

Y-Cable: Noctua NA-SYC1

SATA Cables: Wentronic HDD SATA 6Gbs/s (L-Type - L-Type 90) 0,5m

 

 

Build 2: Possibility to use GPU passthrough later on

 

If I decide this way, I'd just swap PSU and CPU for:

PSU: SilverStone ST45SF 450W SFX

CPU: Intel Core i5-4570T

 

Hopefully someone can confirm if everything will work out this way or if I made a bad mistake somewhere.

 

And another question (just to be sure):

Would you recommend to wire all six SATA ports right off and just disable the unsued slots in the Bios or should it be possible to wire additional HDDs later on without a problem!?

...

And another question (just to be sure):

Would you recommend to wire all six SATA ports right off and just disable the unsued slots in the Bios or should it be possible to wire additional HDDs later on without a problem!?

The backplane only has 5. You should go ahead and connect those to SATA and power so they will be ready to go when you add drives there. No real point in connecting the 6th since there is nothing to attach it to on the other end unless you want to put in an eSATA bracket or something.

not sure but I think the Lian Li case comes with 3 4-pin connectors for the 5-drives bay.  The PSU you selected will only give you 2 of these connectors, you 'll need one extra . And one sata connector from the psu is enough if you have a disk outside the bay. In the end you'll end up with a lot of cables inside a small unit, may be a modular psu makes more sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

not sure but I think the Lian Li case comes with 3 4-pin connectors for the 5-drives bay.  The PSU you selected will only give you 2 of these connectors, you 'll need one extra . And one sata connector from the psu is enough if you have a disk outside the bay. In the end you'll end up with a lot of cables inside a small unit, may be a modular psu makes more sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In regards to using a modular power supply there was a note on the website I was going to order this same case from that said

 

"Note: most modular PSUs will have issues fitting this unit. Due to the minimal space between the PSU and HDD cage, most modular cables from the PSU simply won't fit. Please consider this when looking to purchase; a non-modular PSU with a maximum depth of 17cm is best."

 

Just something to keep in mind when selecting PSU

A few thoughts (and comments on prior posts) ...

 

First, the 450w PSU is PLENTY for a fully loaded Q25B ... I've built several with the 300w version of the PSU, and that's actually enough -- although since you're considering adding a GPU later I'd go with the 450w version.

 

If you need extra SATA connections, just use a splitter or a Molex-SATA adapter.    As for using a modular PSU with this case ... there's no problem at all using a modular SFX unit [e.g. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256084 ] => but it's certainly true you can't use a modular ATX unit (although I'd highly recommend you don't even think about ANY ATX unit ... even though Lian Li says you can use one, it actually only works with the smaller ATX units and is VERY crowded with that size PSU).    For that matter, I doubt you could use the extended ITX motherboard if you used an ATX power supply.

 

My current favorite for an UnRAID USB flash drive is the Ultra-Fit ... this is an amazingly small unit that works perfectly with UnRAID.  [ http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Ultra-Low-Profile-Flash-SDCZ43-064G-G46/dp/B00LLEODCK ]    If there's any issue booting from a USB v3 port, just plug it into one of the v2 ports.

 

16GB of ECC RAM is plenty.

 

The 4TB WD Reds are a good choice for your drives, and will work fine.    Note that you'll be "spoiled" by the performance you'll see with only two drives installed.    When you install just two drives (one data, one parity), UnRAID recognizes this special situation and effectively treats this as a RAID-1 array.  The write performance will be FAR better than you'll see once you add a second data drive      Just remember this -- and don't be surprised when you eventually add another drive and the write speeds drop off.

 

 

... one more note:  As I noted above, I do NOT recommend using an ATX power supply with this case -- and you're clearly not planning on it.    But for anyone who DOES want to use an ATX power supply, you should absolutely buy one of the Lian-Li extension brackets that will mount the ATX unit several inches behind the case -- this not only provides at least a bit of "working room" in the case, but also allows you to use whatever unit you want (modular or not) without being limited to the smallest ATX units.

 

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/7798/cpa-252/Lian_Li_Power_Supply_Extension_Bracket_-_Black_PE-01.html