Forum etiquette inconsistencies


JonathanM

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I find it a little ironic that in the general support forum, we encourage or even demand a new thread for each person's issue, but in the docker and plugin areas we ask for just the opposite, that no new threads be created, all support should stay in the specific docker or plugin thread.

 

I understand how and why it came to be that way, but someone posting here for the first time has got to be a little confused, or even upset when they are told seemingly arbitrarily not to hijack another users post in the general area, but not to create a new thread in the docker area.

 

I don't even know if there is a good solution, but maybe by discussing it we could come up with some options or a better way of explaining it?

 

To start the discussion, what would be the downside of creating child boards for each docker container under the current docker container child board? Could the community developer mods be given the power to create and manage a subchild board for each of the containers that warrant it based on how big the support thread got? In the same vein, it seems like Phaze should have his own child plugin board, where each of his plugins could be discussed individually instead of all his plugins supported in one LONG thread.

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I understand how and why it came to be that way, but someone posting here for the first time has got to be a little confused, or even upset when they are told seemingly arbitrarily not to hijack another users post in the general area, but not to create a new thread in the docker area.

And occasionally, the mods can get a little too "pushy" in attempting to enforce those rules (occasionally to the point of being almost insulting).  I think that most people when they "hijack" another user's thread have good intentions and feel that their problem is similar enough to jump into the conversation.

 

That being said, sometimes threads can and do derail.  My threads are prime examples (although TBH I almost encourage that to happen), and Sparklyball's infamous Sheep comment (thankfully moderated) but I think that's what makes this a fun place to hang out in.

To start the discussion, what would be the downside of creating child boards for each docker container under the current docker container child board? Could the community developer mods be given the power to create and manage a subchild board for each of the containers that warrant it based on how big the support thread got? In the same vein, it seems like Phaze should have his own child plugin board, where each of his plugins could be discussed individually instead of all his plugins supported in one LONG thread.

And what would the fundamental difference be between child boards and individual threads?  Seems to me its the same thing, except that you have less items (child boards) showing up at the top of the list.

 

IMHO, PhAzE (and binhex and gfjardim) could easily split their respective support threads into separate threads for each container / plugin.  But they have not as of yet chosen to do this.  (And the tools exist for users to be able to easily find those new support threads).  And that makes it a nightmare for any user looking to find an answer to a question without reading every posting.  If I had an issue with a PhAzE app, I would read the first page, and then read the last page, not see the answer and then ask the question.

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what would the fundamental difference be between child boards and individual threads?  Seems to me its the same thing, except that you have less items (child boards) showing up at the top of the list.
One child board per popular container would allow individual user issues to be addressed like the main support board, where the issue is raised, discussed, and hopefully closed all in one thread. Mainly just to keep the discussions more focused. Only the largest threads would need to be their own boards, most containers work fine with just a single thread.

 

I'm mainly talking about nesting sub categories vs a flat view, since nesting keeps things cleaner looking, and not nearly as overwhelming at first glance. Finding the right place to start a new post may be more problematic though.

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what would the fundamental difference be between child boards and individual threads?  Seems to me its the same thing, except that you have less items (child boards) showing up at the top of the list.
One child board per popular container would allow individual user issues to be addressed like the main support board, where the issue is raised, discussed, and hopefully closed all in one thread. Mainly just to keep the discussions more focused. Only the largest threads would need to be their own boards, most containers work fine with just a single thread.

 

I'm mainly talking about nesting sub categories vs a flat view, since nesting keeps things cleaner looking, and not nearly as overwhelming at first glance.

ok.  I can see how that would improve things.  I think however that part of the problem with that approach however would be that because out of necessity only certain repositories would be "child worthy", those repo's would (for right or for wrong) come across as being "better" than the ones which are not (since child boards are displayed the same as stickies), and I would like to think that all plugins / containers / whatever are all created equal.  My ideal is a flat display for all, but separate support threads per container / plugin.  But that's just my opinion.

 

Finding the right place to start a new post may be more problematic though.
  Not particularly.  Its just a link.  Maybe I'm biased here, but I would hope that users would check CA (or the App thread) to see where to go.  And its all maintained by the authors themselves.
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  I think however that part of the problem with that approach however would be that because out of necessity only certain repositories would be "child worthy", those repo's would (for right or for wrong) come across as being "better" than the ones which are not (since child boards are displayed the same as stickies)

Maybe a totally different solution? Categorize child boards like the CA does for the apps themselves? That way you would have a logical mesh between what you see in CA and the forum overview.
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I did speak to a mod about this the other day, as trying to offer support for containers when there are random threads popping up is difficult, so a sticky was created.

 

At the moment the docker engine forum is used to post all new support questions for any old container, which isn't it's intended use, but as the creation of new threads in the docker container forum is restricted that's what's happening.

 

Perhaps we could use a sticky in each forum explaining exactly what each forum is for.....

 

There will always be a proportion of people who won't / don't / can't be bothered to read and that's always going to be an issue.

 

Personally I think CA is great and links to the support threads works brilliantly but actually the place we need to get the support thread link placed is in the user docker container menu, alongside webui, start, stop, restart etc.....

 

That would solve a lot of problems I think.

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This is an intresting thread.

 

Throwing this out there, but in the General Support Forum I see a lot of retreading over solved problems, or having the address the same problem in multiple places. I think this actually makes it a bit harder to get support... instead of having to read 30 threads to see if there was a solution that worked, looking though 1 longer thread would make more sense, make solutions harder to miss... etc.

 

The most important question is how the mods want to manage it though, a lot of the reason is work load, and managment costs. No one is getting paid (well most of the mods aren't... I don't think... If they are that changes things...) so it's not like asking them to take on a lot more work is out of the question. IMO.

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This is an intresting thread.

 

Throwing this out there, but in the General Support Forum I see a lot of retreading over solved problems, or having the address the same problem in multiple places. I think this actually makes it a bit harder to get support... instead of having to read 30 threads to see if there was a solution that worked, looking though 1 longer thread would make more sense, make solutions harder to miss... etc.

Don't know about you, but if I was using PhAzE plugins for example, I would read the first page and the last page and not bother with the other 176 pages if I couldn't easily find the answer through a search and then just post a question.
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It is possible to just search within that topic though...

true... I failed the trurl test

lol, he'll be very disappointed in you....

 

As another comment on a previous post in this thread, I don't believe the mods are paid, other than jonp, Eric and Big Tom, who are all employed by or own LT.  I may be wrong and happy to be corrected but I rather think we should be praising them for the work they do rather than getting them to do more....

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It is possible to just search within that topic though...

true... I failed the trurl test

lol, he'll be very disappointed in you....

 

As another comment on a previous post in this thread, I don't believe the mods are paid, other than jonp, Eric and Big Tom, who are all employed by or own LT.  I may be wrong and happy to be corrected but I rather think we should be praising them for the work they do rather than getting them to do more....

 

Many of us are not paid, but motivated in other ways by limetech's grace.

It's not totally about work load.

It's about doing things wisely in the same amount of limited time each of us have to contribute.

 

If someone has to go around making child boards allot,  that could get tedious.

On the other hand, splitting topics and consolidating is also quite tedious.

That's been part of the reason the announcement threads get overrun with tangents.

Once it gets away from you, It's time consuming to split, re-merge and contain.

 

I'm all for better ways of organizing.

Keep in mind that mods have no ability to create new sub boards.

A few suggested ones can be brought up with limetech.

 

Keep the ideas flowing, I'm sure some good ones will crop up!

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I haven't commented here yet, partly because I don't have any new ideas, and partly because you guys were talking about me. ;)

 

PhAzE plugin thread is a perfect example. It just goes on and on about multiple plugins with responses often several posts after the original question. I'm sure many never get answered, and many of them have already been answered before asked.

 

If each individual container and each individual plugin had a separate support thread maybe we could merge any new topics that get created into the proper support thread. On the other hand, there would be so many threads that it could be a lot of trouble just keeping up with where to put something.

 

The reason (obviously) that I don't like other people chiming in with their problems on a support thread that someone else has started is because often the problems are not the same and it can be unclear who is talking to who about what. I think everyone has good intentions, and sometimes it is probably about "misery loves company" more than actually looking for advice. There again if it really becomes obvious that they are looking for advice we could split them, but it's probably easier to just tell them to start another thread while asking them for more information.

 

And, many times it seems users have not even tried a search, or if they did, they just used the search box and got nothing, so I keep pointing them to the forum search sticky.

 

And some of them haven't tried the help built in to V6. So turning on help is another thing that I often suggest.

 

This great forum might even be a reason that users ask here before trying to figure it out for themselves. Despite greatly improved documentation, this is still a complicated product and even if the documentation were better it would just be too much for many to read.

 

So, TLDR, nothing really to add to the discussion but I will continue to listen and consider.

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This great forum might even be a reason that users ask here before trying to figure it out for themselves.

There you go... Straight from a mod's mouth...  I suggest that since we are all to blame for these problems that we all immediately boycott the forum and see if Darwin was actually right.  ;D
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Good ideas above, in full agreement.

 

I've gone ahead and posted here, in PhAzE's huge thread, just my thoughts.  His monster thread was a good one to bring up here, but at the same time, he has special problems.  Many of the support posts there involve multiple plugins (e.g. "plugin A isn't talking to plugin B", "plugins A, B, and C all have problem X", etc).  Plus, I feel he has done a terrific job there, keeping everyone answered, and not getting them mixed up (much better than I could do!).  I'm not sure that completely separate threads for all of his plugins would work that well, but I do agree it's time to start new support threads.  But I have no idea what the best way to divide them up is, and I believe that should be left to him (if he wants to make any changes at all).  One idea is one new thread for the most popular and related plugins, and another new thread as a catch-all for the rest.  Then later, he can further sub-divide, when he feels like it.

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Another thought... Somewhat related to the discussion at hand...

 

Another reorganization of the child boards.  Instead of a Plugins and A Docker Engine board, put them both (as child boards) within a larger board called Add-Ons / Applications / Whatever, since fundamentally they are both the same thing - a way of adding on additional applications / utilities to unRaid proper.

 

And with my latest push on CA trying to unify the indexing and installation of both plugins and containers into the same UI, it kinda makes sense (that is, if my efforts on this is worthwhile)

 

 

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Hey guys!  Currently I really only monitor my huge thread with my tapatalk app so that I see notifications when someone posts.  I have a little notepad that keeps what my last worked on page was and then when I sit down to work on the plugins, I start from that page and read forward all the new posts since that date. That way I tend not to miss much even when multiple plugin questions pop up in the same thread.

 

Now, for me that's not an issue, but an end user may have to read a few posts or pages ahead before they come across my solution post for their problem. 

 

I am going to likely split it into separate threads because it will make it easier for the end users to see their answers.  I'll also work with Squid to get them in CA linked to the appropriate support threads.  Separating them into their own threads will possibly make it harder for a new user to find the plugins they may want to use, so having them in CA will be useful for 6.x users. 

 

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