Can unRAID be installed onto a MicroSD or SD card via USB adapter? Yes it can.

I recently bought this for my digital camera, then realize I probably won't need it since I bought an Eye-Fi.  Could I use the MicroSD card through the USB adapter as my primary unRAID boot drive?  Will unRAID be able to tell that it isn't a standard USB Flash Drive?  If there is too much hassle involved in making this work, then I'll just drop another $10 on a standard USB Flash Drive.

 

By the way, if this works it will be used to test out my new 20 drive Norco 4220-based build with unRAID basic.  If that all goes well, then I'll transfer my unRAID pro flash drive from my current server to this new one.

It's based on the card reader.

 

I use standard SD cards.

I've used the built in card reader in the itx chenbro nas case and I've used other ebay throw me out USB port card readers.

 

If there is a GUID when you boot unRAID, then it will work fine.

OK, thanks.  I guess I'll give it a shot before I throw down any more money.  At least I'm not in a hurry with this build.

I tried with a Kingston branded 8-in-one card reader and a 1GB Mobile-MMC card I had kicking arround.

 

Could boot, the bzimage would load, but all was not well. Unraid gave an error that /boot/config/network.conf (or what that file's name is). Turns out I could log in with root, linux was up but /boot was completely empty. Files were there on the card and i did eject before removing from my windows box. Just didn't work.

 

I ended up using my only other usb-stick for my new test-server, a 16GB corsair that I would rather be using for something else 

I tried with a Kingston branded 8-in-one card reader and a 1GB Mobile-MMC card I had kicking arround.

 

Could boot, the bzimage would load, but all was not well. Unraid gave an error that /boot/config/network.conf (or what that file's name is). Turns out I could log in with root, linux was up but /boot was completely empty. Files were there on the card and i did eject before removing from my windows box. Just didn't work.

 

I ended up using my only other usb-stick for my new test-server, a 16GB corsair that I would rather be using for something else 

Those symptoms describe that the volume label of UNRAID was not found, so it did not mount at /boot, so the network.cfg was not there, so network not initialized.

It works!  Whoo!  No problems whatsoever, it worked just like a standard flash drive would.  unRAID recognizes it, and my mobo also boots from it no problem.  

 

This thing is so tiny, I think it might even be safe enough to keep plugged into the front USB port on a case.  I probably still won't do that, though, since I like to plug my keyboard into the front USB port if I ever need it.

 

Behold, the tiny-ness:

It works!  Whoo!  No problems whatsoever, it worked just like a standard flash drive would.  unRAID recognizes it, and my mobo also boots from it no problem.  It even has a GUID!

 

Does it have the same GUID with different cards? That would be really great because then you could just replace the flash card if and when they fail.

It works!  Whoo!  No problems whatsoever, it worked just like a standard flash drive would.  unRAID recognizes it, and my mobo also boots from it no problem.  It even has a GUID!

Does it have the same GUID with different cards? That would be really great because then you could just replace the flash card if and when they fail.

I'd expect the GUID to stay the same, as it is the GUID of the USB device.  (Like it would be for an external hard disk in a USB enclosure)

But let's hear Rajahal confirm it.

 

Rajahal, thanks for discovering this.  Having the possibility of the flash drive die making the array dead as well has bothered me.

 

I've ordered two different models and I'll test to see if they keep the GUID and report it here.

 

http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Flash_Memory_Cards/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A3205741

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208461

I tested this yesterday with an el cheapo SD Card reader and a kingston MICRO SD Card reader.

It worked for me also.  The GUID is the GUID for the reader not the actual memory card.

So if the memory card goes bad, you can swap it out and still have the system work.

If/When I need another licensed version of unRAID this will probably be the route I go.  I like the idea of being able to buy a bigger SD card should I need to and not need yet another license.

You might consider forwarding this one to Tom...he might want to switch to this type of card/reader combo.

You might consider forwarding this one to Tom...he might want to switch to this type of card/reader combo.

There's nothing special about this particular card/reader.  The GUID is in the USB chip inside it.

The same goes for any external USB enclosure (with a hard disk, SSD, or what have you).

I am not saying that this whole thing isn't a cool idea.  It is!  It's just nothing there for Tom to "switch".

 

Well, I think erikatcuse meant that LimeTech may want to start selling these with unRAID preconfigured instead of flash drives.  Given that they are about the same price, it isn't a bad idea.  These would probably be slightly cheaper to ship as well, since they are completely flat they could be shipped in a regular envelope (I don't know how LimeTech ships it's current flash drives, but I assume they are in some sort of bubble envelope).

 

I think Tom has enough to worry about with the format bug right now, but maybe once that blows over I'll bring this to his attention.

 

The only problem I can see with these microSD USB drives are that they are too small!  Something this small would be quite easy to lose or maybe break.

I bought these two flash card readers, tested with two different flash chips in each.  Both maintain their GUID.

 

http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Flash_Memory_Cards/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A3205741

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208461

 

The bigger one has slots for two different sizes of flash memory.  The smaller only the smallest size.

Looks like it's safe to say that all card readers (maybe except for the cheapest ebay Chinese ones) will have valid GUIDs. That is great to hear. Maybe someone can add a section to the wiki the advantages of going this route and list the ones that people have posted in this thread as definitely working with unRAID.

I bought these two flash card readers, tested with two different flash chips in each.  Both maintain their GUID.

 

http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Flash_Memory_Cards/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A3205741

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208461

 

The bigger one has slots for two different sizes of flash memory.  The smaller only the smallest size.

 

After having experimented with these two readers for some time I've decided to start using one for my unRAID boot flash drive.

I picked the bigger of the two because for some reason I think it's sturdier but I might be imagining that.  It's sold as MobileLiteG2 and I got it for $7.  It has two slots, one fits a microSD and the other fits a full sized SD.  

I stuck a microSD into it and booted but there was some type of problem.  Some, but not all, of the boot messages indicated a missing partition.  I think it's because of the two chip slots, the microSD is number 2.  So I put the microSD into a full sized SD adapter and stuck it into the MobileLiteG2 and booted again.  This time all went well and it booted without complaints.

 

Ok, this particular flash reader isn't exactly tiny but it's not fragile and the chip can be replaced with another simply by copying the contents to another.  While it's true that the reader itself could break eventually it's more likely the flash chip will just wear out.  

 

Here is what the device ids look like on my server.

 

usb-Kingston_Reader_SD_MS_AA00000000062713-0:0@

usb-Kingston_Reader_SD_MS_AA00000000062713-0:0-part1@

Two questions...

 

Does the reader return a usable unique serial number to unRAID?? (not one that is all zeros?)

 

Does the serial number change if you put in a different flash memory card?

 

If it stays the same, and is unique, it would be wonderful.  The flash card can wear out, but the license key is still valid on the replacement.

 

 

Also, if it does return a valid serial number, does it change if plugged into a different USB hub/port?

Also, if it does return a valid serial number, does it change if plugged into a different USB hub/port?

 

I changed to a different usb port and booted it.  The device id is the same.  The serial number is "AA00000000062713" (look way down below in red).  I believe this device has got the goods.

 

usb-Kingston_Reader_SD_MS_AA00000000062713-0:0@

usb-Kingston_Reader_SD_MS_AA00000000062713-0:0-part1@

 

Here's the udev details (sorry it's so long).

 

root@Queeg:~# udevadm info -a -p  $(udevadm info -q path -n /dev/disk/by-id/usb-

K*)

 

Udevadm info starts with the device specified by the devpath and then

walks up the chain of parent devices. It prints for every device

found, all possible attributes in the udev rules key format.

A rule to match, can be composed by the attributes of the device

and the attributes from one single parent device.

 

 looking at device '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2/usb2/2-2/2-2:1.0/host4/tar

get4:0:0/4:0:0:0/block/sdb':

   KERNEL=="sdb"

   SUBSYSTEM=="block"

   DRIVER==""

   ATTR{range}=="16"

   ATTR{ext_range}=="256"

   ATTR{removable}=="1"

   ATTR{ro}=="0"

   ATTR{size}=="3854336"

   ATTR{alignment_offset}=="0"

   ATTR{capability}=="53"

   ATTR{stat}=="     172      932     6209     1710       29       14       61

   4330        0     2820     6040"

   ATTR{inflight}=="       0        0"

 

 looking at parent device '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2/usb2/2-2/2-2:1.0/ho

st4/target4:0:0/4:0:0:0':

   KERNELS=="4:0:0:0"

   SUBSYSTEMS=="scsi"

   DRIVERS=="sd"

   ATTRS{device_blocked}=="0"

   ATTRS{type}=="0"

   ATTRS{scsi_level}=="0"

   ATTRS{vendor}=="Kingston"

   ATTRS{model}=="Reader     SD/MS"

   ATTRS{rev}=="0200"

   ATTRS{state}=="running"

   ATTRS{timeout}=="30"

   ATTRS{iocounterbits}=="32"

   ATTRS{iorequest_cnt}=="0xee"

   ATTRS{iodone_cnt}=="0xee"

   ATTRS{ioerr_cnt}=="0x1"

   ATTRS{modalias}=="scsi:t-0x00"

   ATTRS{evt_media_change}=="0"

   ATTRS{queue_depth}=="1"

   ATTRS{queue_type}=="none"

   ATTRS{max_sectors}=="240"

 

 looking at parent device '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2/usb2/2-2/2-2:1.0/ho

st4/target4:0:0':

   KERNELS=="target4:0:0"

   SUBSYSTEMS=="scsi"

   DRIVERS==""

 

 looking at parent device '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2/usb2/2-2/2-2:1.0/ho

st4':

   KERNELS=="host4"

   SUBSYSTEMS=="scsi"

   DRIVERS==""

 

 looking at parent device '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2/usb2/2-2/2-2:1.0':

   KERNELS=="2-2:1.0"

   SUBSYSTEMS=="usb"

   DRIVERS=="usb-storage"

   ATTRS{bInterfaceNumber}=="00"

   ATTRS{bAlternateSetting}==" 0"

   ATTRS{bNumEndpoints}=="02"

   ATTRS{bInterfaceClass}=="08"

   ATTRS{bInterfaceSubClass}=="06"

   ATTRS{bInterfaceProtocol}=="50"

   ATTRS{modalias}=="usb:v090Cp6300d0200dc00dsc00dp00ic08isc06ip50"

   ATTRS{supports_autosuspend}=="0"

 

 looking at parent device '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2/usb2/2-2':

   KERNELS=="2-2"

   SUBSYSTEMS=="usb"

   DRIVERS=="usb"

   ATTRS{configuration}==""

   ATTRS{bNumInterfaces}==" 1"

   ATTRS{bConfigurationValue}=="1"

   ATTRS{bmAttributes}=="80"

   ATTRS{bMaxPower}=="500mA"

   ATTRS{urbnum}=="1236"

   ATTRS{idVendor}=="090c"

   ATTRS{idProduct}=="6300"

   ATTRS{bcdDevice}=="0200"

   ATTRS{bDeviceClass}=="00"

   ATTRS{bDeviceSubClass}=="00"

   ATTRS{bDeviceProtocol}=="00"

   ATTRS{bNumConfigurations}=="1"

   ATTRS{bMaxPacketSize0}=="64"

   ATTRS{speed}=="480"

   ATTRS{busnum}=="2"

   ATTRS{devnum}=="2"

   ATTRS{version}==" 2.00"

   ATTRS{maxchild}=="0"

   ATTRS{quirks}=="0x0"

   ATTRS{authorized}=="1"

   ATTRS{manufacturer}=="Kingston  Reader"

   ATTRS{product}=="Kingston  Reader"

  ATTRS{serial}=="AA00000000062713"

 

 looking at parent device '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2/usb2':

   KERNELS=="usb2"

   SUBSYSTEMS=="usb"

   DRIVERS=="usb"

   ATTRS{configuration}==""

   ATTRS{bNumInterfaces}==" 1"

   ATTRS{bConfigurationValue}=="1"

   ATTRS{bmAttributes}=="e0"

   ATTRS{bMaxPower}=="  0mA"

   ATTRS{urbnum}=="32"

   ATTRS{idVendor}=="1d6b"

   ATTRS{idProduct}=="0002"

   ATTRS{bcdDevice}=="0206"

   ATTRS{bDeviceClass}=="09"

   ATTRS{bDeviceSubClass}=="00"

   ATTRS{bDeviceProtocol}=="00"

   ATTRS{bNumConfigurations}=="1"

   ATTRS{bMaxPacketSize0}=="64"

   ATTRS{speed}=="480"

   ATTRS{busnum}=="2"

   ATTRS{devnum}=="1"

   ATTRS{version}==" 2.00"

   ATTRS{maxchild}=="6"

   ATTRS{quirks}=="0x0"

   ATTRS{authorized}=="1"

   ATTRS{manufacturer}=="Linux 2.6.32.9-unRAID ehci_hcd"

   ATTRS{product}=="EHCI Host Controller"

   ATTRS{serial}=="0000:00:13.2"

   ATTRS{authorized_default}=="1"

 

 looking at parent device '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2':

   KERNELS=="0000:00:13.2"

   SUBSYSTEMS=="pci"

   DRIVERS=="ehci_hcd"

   ATTRS{vendor}=="0x1002"

   ATTRS{device}=="0x4396"

   ATTRS{subsystem_vendor}=="0x1002"

   ATTRS{subsystem_device}=="0x4396"

   ATTRS{class}=="0x0c0320"

   ATTRS{irq}=="19"

   ATTRS{local_cpus}=="f"

   ATTRS{local_cpulist}=="0-3"

   ATTRS{modalias}=="pci:v00001002d00004396sv00001002sd00004396bc0Csc03i20"

   ATTRS{enable}=="1"

   ATTRS{broken_parity_status}=="0"

   ATTRS{msi_bus}==""

   ATTRS{companion}==""

 

 looking at parent device '/devices/pci0000:00':

   KERNELS=="pci0000:00"

   SUBSYSTEMS==""

   DRIVERS==""

 

root@Queeg:~#

Here's the device info after using a different flash chip.  The device has it's own serial number.  Changing the flash chip does not change the serial number.  

 

 

root@Queeg:~# udevadm info -a -p  $(udevadm info -q path -n /dev/disk/by-id/usb-

K*)

 

Udevadm info starts with the device specified by the devpath and then

walks up the chain of parent devices. It prints for every device

found, all possible attributes in the udev rules key format.

A rule to match, can be composed by the attributes of the device

and the attributes from one single parent device.

 

 looking at device '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2/usb2/2-2/2-2:1.0/host4/tar

get4:0:0/4:0:0:0/block/sda':

   KERNEL=="sda"

   SUBSYSTEM=="block"

   DRIVER==""

   ATTR{range}=="16"

   ATTR{ext_range}=="256"

   ATTR{removable}=="1"

   ATTR{ro}=="0"

   ATTR{size}=="15949824"

   ATTR{alignment_offset}=="0"

   ATTR{capability}=="53"

   ATTR{stat}=="     146      824     6841     1000       35       11       65

   1510        0     1270     2510"

   ATTR{inflight}=="       0        0"

 

 looking at parent device '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2/usb2/2-2/2-2:1.0/ho

st4/target4:0:0/4:0:0:0':

   KERNELS=="4:0:0:0"

   SUBSYSTEMS=="scsi"

   DRIVERS=="sd"

   ATTRS{device_blocked}=="0"

   ATTRS{type}=="0"

   ATTRS{scsi_level}=="0"

   ATTRS{vendor}=="Kingston"

   ATTRS{model}=="Reader     SD/MS"

   ATTRS{rev}=="0200"

   ATTRS{state}=="running"

   ATTRS{timeout}=="30"

   ATTRS{iocounterbits}=="32"

   ATTRS{iorequest_cnt}=="0xda"

   ATTRS{iodone_cnt}=="0xda"

   ATTRS{ioerr_cnt}=="0x1"

   ATTRS{modalias}=="scsi:t-0x00"

   ATTRS{evt_media_change}=="0"

   ATTRS{queue_depth}=="1"

   ATTRS{queue_type}=="none"

   ATTRS{max_sectors}=="240"

 

 looking at parent device '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2/usb2/2-2/2-2:1.0/ho

st4/target4:0:0':

   KERNELS=="target4:0:0"

   SUBSYSTEMS=="scsi"

   DRIVERS==""

 

 looking at parent device '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2/usb2/2-2/2-2:1.0/ho

st4':

   KERNELS=="host4"

   SUBSYSTEMS=="scsi"

   DRIVERS==""

 

 looking at parent device '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2/usb2/2-2/2-2:1.0':

   KERNELS=="2-2:1.0"

   SUBSYSTEMS=="usb"

   DRIVERS=="usb-storage"

   ATTRS{bInterfaceNumber}=="00"

   ATTRS{bAlternateSetting}==" 0"

   ATTRS{bNumEndpoints}=="02"

   ATTRS{bInterfaceClass}=="08"

   ATTRS{bInterfaceSubClass}=="06"

   ATTRS{bInterfaceProtocol}=="50"

   ATTRS{modalias}=="usb:v090Cp6300d0200dc00dsc00dp00ic08isc06ip50"

   ATTRS{supports_autosuspend}=="0"

 

 looking at parent device '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2/usb2/2-2':

   KERNELS=="2-2"

   SUBSYSTEMS=="usb"

   DRIVERS=="usb"

   ATTRS{configuration}==""

   ATTRS{bNumInterfaces}==" 1"

   ATTRS{bConfigurationValue}=="1"

   ATTRS{bmAttributes}=="80"

   ATTRS{bMaxPower}=="500mA"

   ATTRS{urbnum}=="1259"

   ATTRS{idVendor}=="090c"

   ATTRS{idProduct}=="6300"

   ATTRS{bcdDevice}=="0200"

   ATTRS{bDeviceClass}=="00"

   ATTRS{bDeviceSubClass}=="00"

   ATTRS{bDeviceProtocol}=="00"

   ATTRS{bNumConfigurations}=="1"

   ATTRS{bMaxPacketSize0}=="64"

   ATTRS{speed}=="480"

   ATTRS{busnum}=="2"

   ATTRS{devnum}=="2"

   ATTRS{version}==" 2.00"

   ATTRS{maxchild}=="0"

   ATTRS{quirks}=="0x0"

   ATTRS{authorized}=="1"

   ATTRS{manufacturer}=="Kingston  Reader"

   ATTRS{product}=="Kingston  Reader"

   ATTRS{serial}=="AA00000000062713"

 

 looking at parent device '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2/usb2':

   KERNELS=="usb2"

   SUBSYSTEMS=="usb"

   DRIVERS=="usb"

   ATTRS{configuration}==""

   ATTRS{bNumInterfaces}==" 1"

   ATTRS{bConfigurationValue}=="1"

   ATTRS{bmAttributes}=="e0"

   ATTRS{bMaxPower}=="  0mA"

   ATTRS{urbnum}=="32"

   ATTRS{idVendor}=="1d6b"

   ATTRS{idProduct}=="0002"

   ATTRS{bcdDevice}=="0206"

   ATTRS{bDeviceClass}=="09"

   ATTRS{bDeviceSubClass}=="00"

   ATTRS{bDeviceProtocol}=="00"

   ATTRS{bNumConfigurations}=="1"

   ATTRS{bMaxPacketSize0}=="64"

   ATTRS{speed}=="480"

   ATTRS{busnum}=="2"

   ATTRS{devnum}=="1"

   ATTRS{version}==" 2.00"

   ATTRS{maxchild}=="6"

   ATTRS{quirks}=="0x0"

   ATTRS{authorized}=="1"

   ATTRS{manufacturer}=="Linux 2.6.32.9-unRAID ehci_hcd"

   ATTRS{product}=="EHCI Host Controller"

   ATTRS{serial}=="0000:00:13.2"

   ATTRS{authorized_default}=="1"

 

 looking at parent device '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2':

   KERNELS=="0000:00:13.2"

   SUBSYSTEMS=="pci"

   DRIVERS=="ehci_hcd"

   ATTRS{vendor}=="0x1002"

   ATTRS{device}=="0x4396"

   ATTRS{subsystem_vendor}=="0x1002"

   ATTRS{subsystem_device}=="0x4396"

   ATTRS{class}=="0x0c0320"

   ATTRS{irq}=="19"

   ATTRS{local_cpus}=="f"

   ATTRS{local_cpulist}=="0-3"

   ATTRS{modalias}=="pci:v00001002d00004396sv00001002sd00004396bc0Csc03i20"

   ATTRS{enable}=="1"

   ATTRS{broken_parity_status}=="0"

   ATTRS{msi_bus}==""

   ATTRS{companion}==""

 

 looking at parent device '/devices/pci0000:00':

   KERNELS=="pci0000:00"

   SUBSYSTEMS==""

   DRIVERS==""

 

root@Queeg:~#

if anyone is looking for micro usb sticks look no further, yeah its $8 but its nearly a flush fit. I have one on my key chain and didnt even think of going this route on my new build.

 

http://www.amazon.com/elago-Mobile-microSDHC-Memory-Reader/dp/B002HGFKR8/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1285919398&sr=1-1

 

-=Jason=-

I recently bought this for my digital camera, then realize I probably won't need it since I bought an Eye-Fi.  Could I use the MicroSD card through the USB adapter as my primary unRAID boot drive?  Will unRAID be able to tell that it isn't a standard USB Flash Drive?  If there is too much hassle involved in making this work, then I'll just drop another $10 on a standard USB Flash Drive.

 

By the way, if this works it will be used to test out my new 20 drive Norco 4220-based build with unRAID basic.  If that all goes well, then I'll transfer my unRAID pro flash drive from my current server to this new one.

I got two of those microSD but they actually have the same serial numbers 090C-6200-5678-901234567890 and Tom saw that the GUID looked strange and questioned them - with good reason.  Don't think the Kingston model will work and probably not the others as well but don't know.  I am going back to my original plan and using my Lextor flash drives.  Anybody want the two Kingston's I bought?

I recently bought this for my digital camera, then realize I probably won't need it since I bought an Eye-Fi.  Could I use the MicroSD card through the USB adapter as my primary unRAID boot drive?  Will unRAID be able to tell that it isn't a standard USB Flash Drive?  If there is too much hassle involved in making this work, then I'll just drop another $10 on a standard USB Flash Drive.

 

By the way, if this works it will be used to test out my new 20 drive Norco 4220-based build with unRAID basic.  If that all goes well, then I'll transfer my unRAID pro flash drive from my current server to this new one.

I got two of those microSD but they actually have the same serial numbers 090C-6200-5678-901234567890 and Tom saw that the GUID looked strange and questioned them - with good reason.  Don't think the Kingston model will work and probably not the others as well but don't know.  I am going back to my original plan and using my Lextor flash drives.  Anybody want the two Kingston's I bought?

 

What Kingstons did you buy?  And have you bothered to check them at all?

I recently bought this for my digital camera, then realize I probably won't need it since I bought an Eye-Fi.  Could I use the MicroSD card through the USB adapter as my primary unRAID boot drive?  Will unRAID be able to tell that it isn't a standard USB Flash Drive?  If there is too much hassle involved in making this work, then I'll just drop another $10 on a standard USB Flash Drive.

 

By the way, if this works it will be used to test out my new 20 drive Norco 4220-based build with unRAID basic.  If that all goes well, then I'll transfer my unRAID pro flash drive from my current server to this new one.  

I got two of those microSD but they actually have the same serial numbers 090C-6200-5678-901234567890 and Tom saw that the GUID looked strange and questioned them - with good reason.  Don't think the Kingston model will work and probably not the others as well but don't know.  I am going back to my original plan and using my Lextor flash drives.  Anybody want the two Kingston's I bought?

 

What Kingstons did you buy?  And have you bothered to check them at all?

Yes I installed them both in my server.  They both have the same ID above.  Also I bought TWO of the same model in Rajahal post basically this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134990