New user: Please check suggested hardware configuration?

Hi all,

I was looking at getting a new NAS as my current one was running out of space (common problem  ). The current NAS is one year old DIY single disk mITX format server, using an Atom330 mainboard, 2 Gb RAM and 1,5 Tb HD. This running on the excellent Vortexbox software, as the main use was initially to act as server for a Squeezebox music system. However I also started (mis)using it as storage for HD movies (playback on hacked Apple TV running XBMC media center on Linux and the CrystalHD hd decoding card) so the need for more storage capacity is now arising.

Initially I started looking at the common Netgear/Qnap/Synology 4 bay servers, but for a decent specced one (for smooth HD streaming) your looking at approx 500 EUR excl disk (regarding the Euro pricing, I'm based in the Netherlands). Also I feel that 4 disks, so 3 effective in RAID5, might be limit future growth. The step to 6 or 8 disks NAS is quite significant, and I find these to offer little value for money. Furthermore the RAID and hardware depency makes me uncomfortable about losing the all the date in the array in case of failure of multiple disks or the NAS hitself.

So pondering on this, through a UK A/V forum I stumbled on a user building a 20 bay NAS/server using unRAID, which was something unknown to me. Reading in this some more, and browsing the forum and wiki for a few days now, I pretty convinced that unRAID offers the solution I'm looking for.

So I'm about to pull the trigger on a unRAID server. I've decided to not go all-out intially but have a growth scenario as I'm only coming from a single 1,5 Tb media server. So no need to invest a lot inititially whilst storage requirements are still growing.

I'm looking at the following setup based on forum/wiki information and availability here in the Netherlands, I hope that some of the more experienced users can give it a quick check:

Motherboard: Biostar TA785GE

6x SATA, 53 EUR

CPU: AMD Sempron 140, ca 30 EUR

or Athlon X2 240e, ca 50 EUR. A bit more processing power but still energy efficient

RAM; DDR3 2 Gb RAM, ca 35 EUR

Power supply: Corsair CX Builder series 500W should be sufficient to say max 15 disks, cost ca 50 EUR.

Case; Sharkoon Rebel 9 Economy, ca 50 EUR

Hot-swap drive bays, Lian Li EX-H34, ca 60 EUR.

More likely I'm going to take the Sharkoon 3-in-2 SATA Quickport, ca 55 EUR.

Plus/minus vs the Lian Li

+No drive caddy, easier install

+SATA/power connectors are easier to access

+The 3 drivebays fit better with a growth strategy looking at hardware/software (see later in my post)

+In my selected 9 bay miditower case I can fill 4 bays with 12 disks, and fill the remaining bay with a single hotswap to give me 13 drives total, a close match to the 14 SATA ports offered by motherboard + Supermicro SATA card.

- Probably noisier fan than the Lian Li

- Pricier at 55 EUR for 3 bays compared to 60 EUR for four.

Hard Disks will probably be a mix of Samsung (not F4), WD (with jumper) and seagate (update firmware).

Further grow can be achieved by adding the:

Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 SATA card, ca 100 EUR and adds 8 disks.

My growth scenario looks the following:

Step 1: 3 disks

(limited by free unRAID Basic license)

mainboard @ 50 EUR

CPU @ 50 EUR

RAM @ 35 EUR

housing @ 50 EUR

power supply @ 50 EUR

1 x HD cage 3-in-2 @ 55 EUR

unRAID Basic license: 0 EUR

Total price (excl HD): 290 EUR

Cost per disk: 97 EUR

Step 2: growth to 6 disks

(limited by unRAID Plus license)

1 x HD cage 3-in-2 @ 55 EUR

unRAID Plus licence: 50 EUR

Total extra (excl HD): 105 EUR

Total price (excl HD): 395 EUR

Cost per disk: 65 EUR

Step 3: growth to 13 drives

(limited by housing size and SATA ports)

2 x HD cage 3-in-2 @ 55 EUR

1 x HD cage single @ 20 EUR

Supermicro SATA card: 100 EUR

unRAID Pro licence upgrade: 40 EUR

Total extra (excl HD): 270 EUR

Total price (excl HD): 665 EUR

Cost per disk: 51 EUR

Some final points to ponder on, maybe you can give some advice:

*Spend a bit more (approx 80 EUR) selecting a mainboard using Intel H55 chipset and an i3 530 CPU, lots of processing power for things like video transcoding, but very energy efficient.

*The Biostar is only available here in AM2+/DDR2 configuration, not the AM3/DDR3. Is therefore maybe better to get an Asus M4A785T-M?

*Mainboard; the Biostar vs. the Asus; I've heard some complaints on the unRAID forum that setting up the Asus board was a bit more complex.

*As I probably will only be able to fit 13 disks in the case, get the Asus mainboard with 5 x SATA and 1 x eSATA port. So it's easier to attach an external disk to transfer data directly to/from the server faster than USB. But is't not clear to me how I can control this copying to an attached disk outside of the array? If I have to mount and copy disks through Linux command lines it's probably to much hassle.

*I understand you can install Squeezebox Server on an unRAID setup, but it seems quite complex? So maybe better to keep my current Vortexbox NAS as dedicated music server?

Thanks for the inspiration and any advice you may have!

Furthermore, if I'm correct for larger than 2 Tb HD's you need to be able to upgrade your BIOS to a new type. Do the Biostar and Asus boards support this?

(I also understand that unRAID needs to support these disks as well?)

As far as I know, no motherboard hardware currently supports the 3TB drives.  I know unRAID does not support drives over 2TB at this time and I've heard nothing about support of 3TB drives, although it will need to occur, probably after the 5.0 series is out of beta.

There is no way to know if a future BIOS update will be available or work on any given motherboard or disk controller card.  Way too early to have any clues. 

Fortunately, unRAID does not care about the specific motherboard, so when unRAID eventually supports 3TB drives it will be possible to swap out the motherboard even if yours does not have an upgrade path.

The only advice I can give is to not over-purchase the motherboard if you expect to upgrade to 3TB drives in the future.  Expect to replace it.  To make an upgrade of the motherboard easier, use a newer CPU and memory rather than older (DDR3 vs. DDR2 perhaps) as newer motherboards will likely need DDR3 memory strips.  If, by chance there is a BIOS upgrade possible, you'll be in fine shape... If not, you'll have more modern hardware.

Joe L.

If the cooler master 4 in 3 is available where you are, I would consider it as an option as it is much cheaper and offers better cooling. Drive swapping is just not something you do very much with unraid.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817993002

To add data to my server I exclusively use the network. It is gigabit ethernet is fast enough to not affect the write speeds of unraid.

Hi!

The hot swap caches are quite expensive. You mentioned a price between 55-60€. I would go for the LianLi PC-P50 and add 3 Supermicro CSE-M35T-1. They start here in Germany at 94€ and not so far away from 60€ you want to spend.

That solution gives you up to 15 drives.

...and believe my...sooner or later you want this. And you should always consider that one or two drives are gone for parity or the cache.

EDIT: 550W might be not enough. The 15 bay machines you can buy online from Lime Tec. are equipped with a Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12.

Bye.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I will look into the options you mentioned this weekend. I'm aiming of getting my order out before monday.

The only advice I can give is to not over-purchase the motherboard if you expect to upgrade to 3TB drives in the future.  Expect to replace it.  To make an upgrade of the motherboard easier, use a newer CPU and memory rather than older (DDR3 vs. DDR2 perhaps) as newer motherboards will likely need DDR3 memory strips.  If, by chance there is a BIOS upgrade possible, you'll be in fine shape... If not, you'll have more modern hardware.

single disk mITX format server, using an Atom330 mainboard, 2 Gb RAM and 1,5 Tb HD

What is the current motherboard you have and how many ports? Is it possible to use that until you get to the SATA port limit of your current motherboard/case/PSU. Like Joe said, that would keep costs low until you hit your maximum and then it is easy to swap to a newer motherboard/parts which may then be able to support 3TB drives depending on how you go.

Slimserver is installable on unRAID, it does take a little working but not too much esp. with the great unMENU package from Joe.

The only thing I find with slimserver is that it spins up all my disks every now and again which is not ideal so I was thinking of running another server with slimserver and a few other things on it.

Thanks Josh

What is the current motherboard you have and how many ports? Is it possible to use that until you get to the SATA port limit of your current motherboard/case/PSU. Like Joe said, that would keep costs low until you hit your maximum and then it is easy to swap to a newer motherboard/parts which may then be able to support 3TB drives depending on how you go.

 

Slimserver is installable on unRAID, it does take a little working but not too much esp. with the great unMENU package from Joe.

The only thing I find with slimserver is that it spins up all my disks every now and again which is not ideal so I was thinking of running another server with slimserver and a few other things on it.

 

Thanks Josh

Thank you for the tip, this is something I've looked into aswell, reusing the Atom330 board. It is a Intel D945GCLF2 which sadly only offers 2 SATA ports and only a PCI slot, so no option to slot the Supermicro SATA card in.

I will look into the Squeezeserver install when I have the unRAID box. However I must say I'm warming up to the concept of keeping a seperate small music server and just using the unRAID box als a back-up of my music collection. A bit of extra redundancy in storing the music collection might be worth it, I would mind losing that more than losing a movie collection (with music you tend to listen to an album again, wih movies seeing one twice is already quite rare)

Ok guys, thank for the advice sofar.

Currently I see the following options to enter the world of unRAID.

1) The build mentioned in my opening post, using the Sharkoon cages.

2) A build with an option to grow further within the Pro license. This would mean the following changes:

*Bigtower instead of midtower (+25 EUR)

*Other mainboard to offer the necessary slots for 2 Supermicro SATA cards (M4A785TD-V EVO) (+40 EUR)

*Beefier power supply (Corsair TX650W) (+30 EUR)

*Use 5-in-3 cages. The best option here seems to be the Norco SS-500 at 100 EUR.

So the growth scenario will then be:

Step 1: 3 disks

(limited by free unRAID Basic license)

mainboard @ 90 EUR

CPU @ 50 EUR

RAM @ 35 EUR

housing @ 75 EUR

power supply @ 80 EUR

1 x HD cage 5-in-3 @ 100 EUR

unRAID Basic license: 0 EUR

Total price (excl HD): 430 EUR

Cost per disk: 143 EUR

Step 2: growth to 6 disks

(limited by unRAID Plus license)

1 x HD cage 5-in-3 @ 100 EUR

unRAID Plus licence: 50 EUR

Total extra (excl HD): 150 EUR

Total price (excl HD): 580 EUR

Cost per disk: 97 EUR

Step 3: growth to 20 drives

(limited by housing size)

2 x HD cage 5-in-3 @ 100 EUR

2 x Supermicro SATA card @ 100 EUR

unRAID Pro licence upgrade: 40 EUR

Total extra (excl HD): 440 EUR

Total price (excl HD): 1020 EUR

Cost per disk: 51 EUR

Although at 20 disks it's more efficient to go for a Norco 4020 case, which will lower the costs by about 100 EUR compard to the bigtower + 4 x 5-in-3 cages setup.

3) Pursuing either build 1 or 2 but using my current Atom330 board and getting a Promise 4 x SATA card at 75 EUR to achieve 6 ports. This will save me 160 EUR compared to build 1.

Looking at this:

Keeping an option open to grow to 20 cases seems quite an extra outlay initially, and benefits will only come into play once you reach the 20 disk number. So you should be pretty sure that you will grow to that capacity, and if you are it might be wiser to invest in the Norco 4020 case then.

Resuing my old Atom setup only gives me an 85 EUR (savings minus cost Promise SATA card) advantage intially, but the hassles of changing the system once you exceed disks and the speed limits of the PCI bus. Not to mention the transfer of data from the current Vortexbox NAS to the unRAID NAS.

All in all I feel the earlier suggested 13 disk max build might offer a fine balance between initial investment and growth potential.

Regarding the use of hotswap cages, I realize that hot-swapping is not possible with unRAID and carries a significant extra cost (240 EUR or 35% of the total cost in the end 13 disk build). However it provides easy capacity growth (just slot another disk in) without removing the case from the hallway closet it will be put in. With a small change to my preferred 13 disk growth scenario, by initially installing two 3-in-2 cages, I only have to open the case (in theory) when I put in the extra components to go from 6 to 13 disks.

I like your option 2 with one change, get the pro licensee to allow for growth above 6 drives with out changing the hardware. I have been using unRAID for almost a year and have grown to a 4 disk server, it is currently at around 70% full. I have one hard drive on the shelf incase of a drive failure. I will be moving up to 5 disks soon as I copy my music collection to the server.

The main thing to remember is that computer component prices will always lower, and you will more than likely save money if you go with the I will grow as needed mentality. At least that is how I go about my rig.

Also, the 20 drive option might actually be 22 drives. (if you can find room in the case for 2 more drives in another drive cage)   Parity-drive + 20 data drives + optional cache drive.

Also, the 20 drive option might actually be 22 drives. (if you can find room in the case for 2 more drives in another drive cage)   Parity-drive + 20 data drives + optional cache drive.

The Sharkoon case that I'm looking at if I go for the 20 drive option has 12 5.25 bays (so room for 4 x 5-in-3 cage) and an additional 6 x 3.5 bays. See the build by user 'neilt0' (http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=2031.msg73565#msg73565)

So using a mainboard with 6 x SATA + 2 Supermicro cards will give me a total of 22 SATA ports, enough to fit into the case and the Pro license.

The question is therefore am I willing to invest 150 to 200 EUR extra initially to keep the option open to grow to an extra 9 disks in the 'end' scenario. And do I foresee myself needing that capacity, it seems such a long distance from my current 1,5 Tb server...

I like your option 2 with one change, get the pro licensee to allow for growth above 6 drives with out changing the hardware. I have been using unRAID for almost a year and have grown to a 4 disk server, it is currently at around 70% full. I have one hard drive on the shelf incase of a drive failure. I will be moving up to 5 disks soon as I copy my music collection to the server.

 

The main thing to remember is that computer component prices will always lower, and you will more than likely save money if you go with the I will grow as needed mentality. At least that is how I go about my rig.

Thanks for the advice, I believe my current growth scenarios (except the Atom board reuse) don't require changing hardware, only install of additional cages and/or SATA cards.

Ok, another option to look at, a 15 bay unit. Basically the same hardware as the 13 bay original option, but using different hotswap cages and powersupply.

Cages: Norco SS-500

Power Supply: Corsair Builder Series CX600

Step 1: 3 disks

(limited by free unRAID Basic license)

mainboard @ 50 EUR

CPU @ 50 EUR

RAM @ 35 EUR

housing @ 50 EUR

power supply @ 70 EUR

1 x HD cage 5-in-3 @ 100 EUR

unRAID Basic license: 0 EUR

Total price (excl HD): 365 EUR

Cost per disk: 122 EUR

Step 2: growth to 6 disks

(limited by unRAID Plus license)

1 x HD cage 5-in-3 @ 100 EUR

unRAID Plus licence: 50 EUR

Total extra (excl HD): 150 EUR

Total price (excl HD): 515 EUR

Cost per disk: 85 EUR

Step 3: growth to 15 drives

(limited by housing size)

1 x HD cage 5-in-3 @ 100 EUR

Supermicro SATA card: 100 EUR

Cheapo PCI SATA card (one SATA port needed): 20 EUR

unRAID Pro licence upgrade: 40 EUR

Total extra (excl HD): 260 EUR

Total price (excl HD): 775 EUR

Cost per disk: 52 EUR

My main issue with this scenario is that the Norco cages are quite steeply priced here, 100 EUR compared to about 70 EUR in the UK. That makes this option less attractive than it could be. At the 70 EUR price level this is probably the winner regarding intial costs vs expansion potential. And also I prefer the somewhat more compact size of a midtower.

And apologies with boring you with all the options, but it is also a way to organise my thoughts...

By the time you get to 15 drives the 5 in 3's will take you over the price of a 20 drive Norco 4220. Personally I can't see myself getting to 20 drives either, but 10 years ago I didn't think I would ever need 1 TB. I would bite the bullet early when the deals are good and leave room for as much expansion as possible. If the rack type server case is not for you, or you don't have room, then the 5 in 3's are the only way to go, just a little more expensive.

By the time you get to 15 drives the 5 in 3's will take you over the price of a 20 drive Norco 4220. Personally I can't see myself getting to 20 drives either, but 10 years ago I didn't think I would ever need 1 TB. I would bite the bullet early when the deals are good and leave room for as much expansion as possible. If the rack type server case is not for you, or you don't have room, then the 5 in 3's are the only way to go, just a little more expensive.

Agreed, I'm looking at 75 + 4 x 100 = 475 EUR for case and cages. A Norco 4020 is 370 EUR here.

So question is do a want a 'pay as you go model' which will end up more expensive, or do I want to invest more initially and take the risk of not needing the space but end up more economical.

Hi!

*Use 5-in-3 cages. The best option here seems to be the Norco SS-500 at 100 EUR.

Look:

http://www.xcase.co.uk/hotswap-stoarge-kit-p/hddkit-xx-500.htm

70€ without delivery from the UK. Looks like a rebuilt of the NORCOs.

Bye.

Look:

 

http://www.xcase.co.uk/hotswap-stoarge-kit-p/hddkit-xx-500.htm

 

70€ without delivery from the UK. Looks like a rebuilt of the NORCOs.

 

Bye.

Hi, thank you, those are indeed the cases I was referring to in my earlier post regarding UK pricing. The shop here has responded that they can't change the price, so it is fixed at 100 EUR. I might try to get them from the UK, either shipped to here or picked up there (I'm often in the UK to visit friends).

Hi!

Hm. Are you living in Germany?

We had a thread in our German popcornhour forum about unRAID. One user bought 2 of these cases. They charged him 15.60 Pound for the delivery to Germany:

http://www.popcornforum.de/showthread.php?tid=15489&pid=213711#pid213711

Bye.

Hi!

 

Hm. Are you living in Germany?

 

We had a thread in our German popcornhour forum about unRAID. One user bought 2 of these cases. They charged him 15.60 Pound for the delivery to Germany:

 

http://www.popcornforum.de/showthread.php?tid=15489&pid=213711#pid213711

 

Bye.

Hi,

no the Netherlands. I've been in contact, and they will charge me 20 GBP to ship 3 units to here. I actually might visit the UK next month so could also have them delivered to a friend.

Will check the link, thanks!

I know these specific parts may not be available to you in NL, but I believe this type of expansion path makes the most sense:

5 to 10 to 15 bay

The individual builds are spec'd out on this page.

Also, I may be wrong on this as I've never actually tried it, but it might be possible to run the Supermicro 8 port card on a PCI slot with just much, much slower speeds.  I know you can run PCIe cards on slower slots with crippled speeds, but I'm unsure if a PCIe card can run on a PCI slot.  Anyway, if this does work it would allow you to upgrade a bit more slowly without wasting a Promise PCI card.

^ wrong

If you do end up temporarily using a PCI card, I recommend finding a SIL3132 as they tend to be very cheap, much cheaper than the Promise models.

Thank you for your advice. Most parts of your budget box designs are available here, although the Asus mainboard seems to be more common than the Biostar one.

Regarding the PCI card (which I would need to reach 15 SATA ports), I've also found these: http://www.sweex.com/nl/assortiment/connectivity/pci-express-cards/PU203/productsheets

The main issue is finding HDD hot-swap cages, which seem to hard to get or at higher prices compared to the US.

I believe I've mapped out most options out, so I'm gonna throw it in one overview and decide on which route I'm going to follow.

BTW, is their much advantage in going for the Athlon over the Sempron, taking into account I might want to runs SABNZB, Torrent, Squeezeserver?

I know that torrents can benefit from more RAM, but the CPU wouldn't matter much.  I don't know about SABNZB or squeezeserver.  Generally speaking, the CPU only matters if you are doing something like encoding/transcoding video or running VMs.

PCI-E and PCI are completely incompatible. You absolutely CANNOT run a PCI-E card of any type in a PCI slot. It won't even fit.