Raj's Prototype Designs [Discussion Thread]

Note from Raj:

 

I reached the character limit for a single post in my original prototype builds thread and wanted more room to add new builds!  I split the threads so that I could add new stuff without getting rid of all of these comments.  I would love to merge the threads back into a single one again, but alas I do not know how.  If you do, PM me.  For now, please continue to use this thread for comments and discussion of my designs.  I'll keep the other thread locked to prevent confusion.

 

The original thread is here:

 

Raj's Prototype Designs

 

 

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Nice!  There is no end of new users coming here looking for advice on hardware for new builds.  It just needs to be refreshed periodically as the HW (esp. motherboards) come and go.

 

I love the smaller cases you've selected.  Small but lots of drive bays.

 

You might consider giving an Intel for those with such a preference.

 

I would suggest that you "spec" each rig with its starting configuration and maxed out configuration.  One constant seems to be that once a new user gets a taste of unRAID, that they will be looking to expand way beyond their initial "3 disks is big enough" thinking.

Does mini-ITX install in a uATX case?

Does mini-ITX install in a uATX case?

 

Yes, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-ITX

Thanks!  (Should have called it uuATX? )

Nice work Raj! 

 

I would suggest the ASUS M4A78L-M motherboard for some of your "mobo still being researched" builds.  I have this mobo and so far I've had no issues with it running unRAID.

Does mini-ITX install in a uATX case?

 

Yes, as you can see the 6 drive and smaller designs all use miniITX motherboards in microATX cases.  miniITX uses only 4 screws, which correspond to the 4 screw-holes closest to the IO panel.

 

In fact, I would venture to say that miniITX will fit in ANY case, since those 4 screw-holes are part of ATX as well, I believe.  I haven't actually tested this theory, though.

 

My reasoning for using miniITX motherboards in microATX cases is to keep costs down and to make the build easier.  miniITX motherboards such as the one I've used in my designs above are very cheap, generally under $50 (the one I used is only $30).  However, miniITX cases are often expensive and don't have a lot of drive expandability options.  Using a miniITX motherboard in a microATX case also means that you don't have to worry about which hot swap drive cages will fit and which won't...all of them will fit, since the motherboard takes up so little space.

Raj - really like your designs.

 

Now if I could only find a motherboard that is still available and works well with WOL.  (Yeah, I've done a search and to be honest there doesn't seem to be any great documentation on this, at least with current boards)

 

I'm not building now though - waiting a bit.  Was hoping to wait until 3TB drives become available, but they are taking forever.

Raj - really like your designs.

 

Now if I could only find a motherboard that is still available and works well with WOL.  (Yeah, I've done a search and to be honest there doesn't seem to be any great documentation on this, at least with current boards)

 

I'm not building now though - waiting a bit.  Was hoping to wait until 3TB drives become available, but they are taking forever.

The 3TB drives will not work in unRAID with the current MBR structure.  It will take a major revision of unRAID to accomodate the 3TB drives.  (the master-boot-record common to all PCs since MS-DOS days cannot handle the number of sectors.  It maxes out just over 2TB.)

 

Do not wait, unless you are just waiting for the 2TB drives to come down in price when the 3TB drives are released.

 

 

The 3TB drives will not work in unRAID with the current MBR structure.  It will take a major revision of unRAID to accomodate the 3TB drives.  (the master-boot-record common to all PCs since MS-DOS datys cannot handle the number of sectors.  It maxes out just over 2TB.)

 

Thanks.  UnRaid compatibility with 3TB drives was on my list of things to research.

 

I kinda figured by the time they were out - well I should say, shortly after they were out...  That since UnRaid is all about storage arrays using large hard drives...  That UnRaid would be modified in relatively short order to support them.

 

But that was really just speculation on my part; speculation that may in fact be completely wrong.

Thanks.  UnRaid compatibility with 3TB drives was on my list of things to research.

 

It is not an unRAID thing.... No one has mobo compatibility with 3GB drives yet.

 

It is not an unRAID thing.... No one has mobo compatibility with 3GB drives yet.

 

Fixable I assume with a bios upgrade if you have a relatively new MB?

 

It is not an unRAID thing.... No one has mobo compatibility with 3GB drives yet.

 

Fixable I assume with a bios upgrade if you have a relatively new MB?

 

Not readily fixable unless the motherboard is already using EFI. The only ones for certain using that are Apple's Mac products. Nearly all the PC motherboards are not using EFI, there may be some out there, but likely so limited and non-existent you can count them on one hand.

 

Knowing the extent of research, design, and validation that's required to switch from the common Award/Phoenix/AMI typical BIOS and how motherboard manufacturers are unwilling to switch midstream, I'll go out on a limb and say none of the existing motherboards will be fixed.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Firmware_Interface

 

It is not an unRAID thing.... No one has mobo compatibility with 3GB drives yet.

 

Fixable I assume with a bios upgrade if you have a relatively new MB?

 

Not readily fixable unless the motherboard is already using EFI. The only ones for certain using that are Apple's Mac products. Nearly all the PC motherboards are not using EFI, there may be some out there, but likely so limited and non-existent you can count them on one hand.

 

Knowing the extent of research, design, and validation that's required to switch from the common Award/Phoenix/AMI typical BIOS and how motherboard manufacturers are unwilling to switch midstream, I'll go out on a limb and say none of the existing motherboards will be fixed.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Firmware_Interface

 

That sucks

It means that in the long run everyone may have to change their system, even if it works well

 

EDIT:Although i may add that i just looked at the asus  site and the have an EFI-bios update for a more-than-a-year old mobo that i have in another pc

15 Drive Budget Box (pics using different 5-in-3s and a different motherboard)

Mobo: BIOSTAR TA785G3HD

CPU: AMD Sempron 140

RAM: Kingston 2GB DDR3 1066

PSU: CORSAIR Builder Series CX430 CMPSU-430CX 430W

Case: COOLER MASTER Centurion 590 RC-590-KKN1-GP Black SECC / ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

SATA Expansion Cards: SUPERMICRO AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCI Express x4 Low Profile SAS SAS RAID Controller x 2

Cables: 3ware CBL-SFF8087OCF-05M 1 unit of 0.5m Multi-lane Internal (SFF-8087) Serial ATA breakout cable, forward x 2

Hot Swap Drive Bays: SUPERMICRO CSE-M35T-1B Black 5 Bay Hot-Swapable SATA HDD Enclosure x 3

Hard Drives: Green drives (5400 rpm or 5900 rpm), such as WD Green, Samsung EcoGreen, and Seagate LP

 

Just a comment (although it might be wrong, you are more much more experienced than i am).

The PSU is 28A,which means that with 15 drives (even the green ones you mention) it will barely make it since each HD needs about 2A (and i am not counting the other components' consumption).

 

Also, since this is directed mostly to new users, maybe you should also add for every build (if it is not much work) what  its limiting factors will be in terms of HDD addition (a psu may not allow for more hddds, a mobo may not take more expansion cards, a case may not fit any more expansion cages...). I am saying that because i guess most of the unraid users (like me) must be a bit more obsessive/compulsive than the average user, which means that at a point they will want more space...

Hey Raj, I noticed you recommended DDR2 memory for the Supermicro MBD-C2SEE-O 20-drive beast.  Doesn't that board require DDR3?

Yep, good catches, both of you.  I was working on this and the wiki from about 2-4 am last night (couldn't sleep), so I'm actually surprised I didn't make more mistakes.

Great work Raj!  I really appreciate your contributions to this forum, and I'm sure I'm not alone.  I have found many of your posts very helpful and I'm sure these designs will be well used. 

You should get a kick-back from the sellers.  It would be great if we could set up some kind of group buy discount.

I agree, your contributions are greatly appreciated!

 

I am using an old mATX tower I had lying around at the moment but I am starting to think it is not worth putting any effort into. e.g. - I thought it had 3x5.25 external bays but it actually only has 2.

 

I am considering buying the Rosewill R101-P-BK case that you have worked with. (when it goes on sale again)

 

I have the ASUS M4A785-M Motherboard (9.6 x 9.6)

 

I would like to (eventually) put a 5 in 3 hot swap drive bay. I am concerned with the "depth" of the Hot swap bays. Would any of the 5 in 3 bays fit with a 9.6 x 9.6 Mobo? If yes, your recomendation on the best one for this application would be greatly appreciated. I think vertical disk orientation would work the best. Coolest looking and cheapest are always good things but actually fitting is the most important thing. I think trayless might be nice, but I actually don't have any experience either way with Hot Swap Bays. If I have to remove a rear fan and come up with a custom cooling solution, I have no problem with that.

 

I am also thinking about putting in a 2.5" in 3.5" hot swap bay for an SSD cache drive. But that is not really a necessity.

 

I am fairly certain that 1 Parity disk + 4 Data disks (I have 1-1.5Tb disk but the rest will be 2Tb or more if the 3Tb disks gain support) + Cache will meet my needs for quite a while. Also, I like this case because of the small size (and cost) - I would have gone Mini-ITX but the cost and expandability options were too prohibitive.

 

 

Any opinions on what I am trying to accomplish with this case would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks again for all your efforts!

 

 

 

9 Drive Budget Box (inspired by WeeboTech's rig)

Mobo: BIOSTAR TA785G3HD

CPU: AMD Sempron 140

RAM: Kingston 2GB DDR3 1066

PSU: CORSAIR Builder Series CX430 CMPSU-430CX 430W

Case: COOLER MASTER Centurion 590 RC-590-KKN1-GP Black SECC / ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

SATA Expansion Cards:

    2 port SATA2 Serial ATA II PCI-Express RAID Controller Card (Silicon Image SIL3132)

    2 Port SATA Serial ATA PCI RAID Controller Card - Silicon Image (only use 1 port on this card)

Hot Swap Drive Bays: Mobile Rack for 3.5 inches SATA HDD - Open Frame x 9

Hard Drives: Green drives (5400 rpm or 5900 rpm), such as WD Green, Samsung EcoGreen, and Seagate LP

Cost: $415 + shipping + cost of hard drives

Capacity: 16 TB

Expandability: Expandable to the 10 Drive Budget Box with replacement of hot swap bays.  Expandable to the 15 Drive Budget Box with replacement of hot swap bays and power supply.

 

 

Can I add these sata cards at a later date without a problem? Also do I have to configure or install drivers for these sata cards or will they just work when installed?

I would like to (eventually) put a 5 in 3 hot swap drive bay. I am concerned with the "depth" of the Hot swap bays. Would any of the 5 in 3 bays fit with a 9.6 x 9.6 Mobo? If yes, your recomendation on the best one for this application would be greatly appreciated. I think vertical disk orientation would work the best. Coolest looking and cheapest are always good things but actually fitting is the most important thing. I think trayless might be nice, but I actually don't have any experience either way with Hot Swap Bays. If I have to remove a rear fan and come up with a custom cooling solution, I have no problem with that.

 

I can't tell you for sure if it would work or not.  All I can say is that I would recommend getting hot swap bays with removable rear fans (such as the SuperMicro models I use in my designs).  That way if you have to use a custom cooling solution, you have that option.  A simple 'custom' solution might be to just replace the stock fan with a slim version of the same sized fan.  However, if you limit yourself to using only green drives and maybe upgrade the 120mm case fan, you may be able to get away without a dedicated hot swap fan at all.

 

I am also thinking about putting in a 2.5" in 3.5" hot swap bay for an SSD cache drive. But that is not really a necessity.

I've thought about that too, but also deemed it unnecessary.  I've also thought about using something like this for 2.5" HDDs.  It might be a good option if you have some extra laptop drives or SSDs that you want to put to use.  However, for most people it will be a waste.

 

Can I add these sata cards at a later date without a problem? Also do I have to configure or install drivers for these sata cards or will they just work when installed?

 

Yes, you can add the SATA cards later.  I have personally used the PCIe x1 card, and no config is needed - it is fully plug'n'play.  I haven't personally used the PCI version of the card, but I believe that it is based on the same SIL 3132 controller, so it should be plug'n'play as well.

Raj,

 

Why did you select the NORCO 4220 over the less expensive 4020?

I think the 4020 is EOL'd and replaced with the 4220.

I personally like the design of the 4220 more than the 4020.  The 4220 uses miniSAS backplanes, which means that you can wire up the whole thing with just 5 cables (4 miniSAS and one reverse breakout).  The 4020 would require 8 cables (4 forward breakout, 4 regular SATA).

 

You are right that the 4020 is cheaper, so for a budget build it could be a consideration...

10 Drive Budget Box (pics using different 5-in-3s and a different motherboard)

 

Hot Swap Drive Bays: SUPERMICRO CSE-M35T-1B Black 5 Bay Hot-Swapable SATA HDD Enclosure x 2

 

Raj...

 

In this thread:

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7272.0

 

You mention that you prefer trayless 5in3's.  The model you have shown there is:

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816215083

 

Which you can see, is deactivated at newegg.

 

So what is your current favorite?  This is the only part of my build I haven't decided on.

 

TY

Unfortunately, all my favorites aren't easily available at the moment. So you'll either have to go for a trayed option, or wait